Power conditioners versus UPS?

[JLNorthGA]

The recent thread for unclean power got me to wondering.
Our current booth rack which contains a DriveRack PA+, a MidiVerb, three compressor/limiters and what not has a power conditioner. We use the power conditioner to supply power to the aforementioned equipment as well as the mixing board. The amplifiers use regular building power.

If all I powering with a UPS is compressor/limiters, sound effects and signal processing, a mixing board and the like - why not have a UPS?

I have a UPS which supplies power to the Element in the light booth - on recommendation from the installation engineer and ETC. It also supplies power to the two monitor screens.

I was figuring that when I replaced the borrowed sound equipment in a year or two that I would use a UPS as opposed to a power conditioner. The UPS would run all the time - I wouldn't be turning the sound equipment off with the UPS.

If y'all think a power conditioner is a better choice - please comment as to why. If y'all think there are better alternatives - again - please comment.

Should I have the amplifiers on surge suppressors? Works for me - I'm only powering three amplifiers.

 

[derekleffew]

... If all I powering with a UPS is compressor/limiters, sound effects and signal processing, a mixing board and the like - why not have a UPS? ...

Because it's unnecessary? If the amps lose power, the mixer and processing aren't going to do you much good.

The same can be said about lighting consoles being worthless if dimmers don't have power, except the reason lighting console manufacturers recommend a UPS (or make consoles that have built-in UPS s) is to reduce the long boot time of any computer. So if it's a digital audio console or computer running Qlab or similar, sure why not, but no reason for the processing. Those amp-hours do add up quickly.

There is (and always has been) a lot of snake oil involved with surge protector s and power conditioner s. I'm not pointing fingers, but Furman and Juice Goose. The better (and actually effective) ones usually cost more than anyone wants to spend. Same with UPS s, except the batteries need to be replaced usually every three years. And many UPS s don't have any power conditioning abilities at all.
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[museav]

Because it's unnecessary? If the amps lose power, the mixer and processing aren't going to do you much good.

The same can be said about lighting consoles being worthless if dimmers don't have power, except the reason lighting console manufacturers recommend a UPS (or make consoles that have built-in UPS s) is to reduce the long boot time of any computer. So if it's a digital audio console or computer running Qlab or similar, sure why not, but no reason for the processing. Those amp-hours do add up quickly.

I agree that many 'power conditioners' don't actually provide much power conditioning, in fact some seem to simply turn themselves off if the power goes outside defined conditions. And power conditioning is not typically necessary unless you have problematic power or share circuits or wiring with certain other equipment such as dimmers, pumps or compressors.

However, I believe that if the equipment involves a processor, such as their DRPA+ and MidiVerb, then those essentially are a computer and not only is reboot time a possible issue but they may act funky with poor power. Some of the most problematic equipment in regard to high/low voltage, surges, etc. that I have ever encountered were DSP devices, they would not be physically damaged but the programming and settings would get all messed up. Put them on a UPS and those problems completely stopped.

I am a fan of series mode surge suppression for any critical devices combined with an online/double conversion UPS for all processor based gear. An online/double conversion UPS is typically more expensive than line interactive units but offers what I see as two advantages. One is that they always run off the battery, thus there is no interruption of the output when there are issues with the line power, not even a momentary glitch to switch between line and battery. Second, because they always run off the battery they also inherently provide some power conditioning and isolation.

I like putting amps on surge suppression and I have seen that pay for itself but in many cases the cost is difficult to justify especially if the building has good surge suppression. What I do find ironic is how many people say they use their house audio system for emergency announcements but do not have any surge suppression or uninterruptible power for some of the components in that system, it is difficult to make an announcement relating to losing power when the system is down.

 

[MNicolai]

The only advantage you gain (IMO) from a UPS in a controlled environment is if someone kicks the cable out of the wall or the power briefly flashes out, you don't have to wait for a digital audio or lighting console to reboot.

If you actually have a power outage for longer than a few seconds, you won't need your consoles because it's generally not feasible to battery backup your power amps nor your lighting dimmers.

The point at which maintained control over audio systems is necessary during sustained outages is the point you should be operating off of a backup generator. As for lighting, control is irrelevant because in assembly spaces emergency lighting circuits should fire up automatically either by localized batteries or by a backup generator.

As for Why Not? Backup units cost money. Large enough backup units to make having a backup worthwhile cost more money. Annual or semi-annual replacements of batteries also cost money -- money that tends to not be factored into routine maintenance budgets when purchasing backups. I have also seen situations where lighting control systems start to get buggy when the UPS ages over a a number of years. An old UPS does not always output the same quality of power in its youth as it does when it's 5-10 years old.

As for power conditioners, clean power an isolated transformer with a proper grounding scheme should be done system-wide for best results. Putting a power conditioner in each rack, clean power does not make, and conditioners are no substitute for a proper clean power system. In my experience, they do not produce noticeable differences in audio quality.

I'm all for organized power distribution, rack-mount or with power strips mounted in the rear of the rack, but if you think power conditioning units are worth it at all or that UPS backups are worth it because "Why not?", then I've got some unicorns I'd like to sell you.

There are applications for UPS backups, especially if you have a digital console that takes 3 minutes to boot up, but most take much less than that. Another application is for touring or outdoor events when it's more likely a cable may get cut or accidentally unplugged, or that a circuit breaker may trip. A UPS saves you a little face for "nuisance" outages like that and gives you time to correct the errors before the signal to the loudspeakers cuts out. If your primary power source is via a generator, that's another good time to consider a UPS to correct fluctuations.

If you find a UPS with one of those rock solid liability coverage for up $xx,xxx of gear, then that may be a compelling reason to install one, but there tend to be twists in the fine print that make those not as guaranteed as they would initially seem to be.

Our company standard when specifying systems is power distribution via power strips from Middle Atlantic that allow sequencing of circuits. They do not claim to condition or clean up the power. Power conditioners are used generally for rack lights or voltage meters instead of for power quality. UPS backup are used sometimes but not always for digital consoles.

 

[FMEng]

As I've said before in other threads, I am of the opinion that most power conditioners are snake oil. They accomplish little. I've been doing audio for 30+ years, and I have yet to see a power conditioner make an audible or measurable difference. A simple surge arrestor/filter can offer some protection and doesn't cost as much as a so-called power conditioner.

In terms of spike and surge suppression, the more common and less expensive UPS models that are "line interactive" do not offer any more protection than your average plug strip with surge suppression. To achieve maximum isolation and cleanest power, use a "double conversion" UPS. For powering audio systems, a sine wave output is essential.

A sine wave, double conversion unit is a pretty expensive piece of equipment. Then the question is, how bad is it if that rare brownout or momentary blackout hits your audio system. In most situations, that kind of protection just isn't warranted.

Often overlooked is that a UPS is a high maintenance item. They need to be tested on a regular basis and the batteries need to be replaced on a schedule, before they fail. A battery failure can result in a sudden loss of AC output, even when the incoming AC is just fine. A UPS with five year old batteries is worse than no UPS at all.

 

[westom]

Should I have the amplifiers on surge suppressors? Works for me - I'm only powering three amplifiers.

Only the fewer who know how hardware works will also know that 'dirtiest' power is already inside electronics. Does not matter how 'clean' AC power is. Because electronics first convert that 120 VAC to radio frequency waves that exceed 300 volts. Then superior filtering already inside all electronics convert that higher and spikier power into rock solid, low voltage DC.

The cleanest or dirtiest AC is first converted to even 'dirtier' power. Because best power conditioners are already (and required to be) inside all electronics.

What does a surge protector do? Protects from a transient already made irrelevant by superior conditioners inside.

An AC utility in "Tech Tip 03" demonstrates the output from a sine wave UPS:
Tech Tip 03 - Indiana Business-Duke Energy
That 'dirty' power is also called a pure sine wave. Those spikes are created by a sum of pure sine waves. The 'pure sine wave' claim is valid. And intentionally misleading because a majority will make assumptions only from speculation.

This 120 volt sine wave UPS outputs 200 volt square waves with a spike of up to 270 volts. Even dimmers generate what some call "a surge". Due to superior filtering already inside all electronics, that dimmer switch, "Tech Tip" UPS, and my UPS are ideal (sufficiently clean) power for all electronics.

Now some anomalies can create problems or failures. A UPS does not avert any of them. Each anomaly must be identified before any solution can be recommended. Nothing averts all anomalies despite popular urban myths.

UPS only provides temporary and 'dirty' power during a blackout - one type of anomaly. Power conditioners are a generic term for boxes that address only one of so many possible anomalies. Two different power conditioners may address two completely different anomalies that are also irrelevant. A term 'power conditioner' is promoted so that the naive will assume that 'magic box' solves all anomalies.

More honest posters will note how snake oil promotes 'high profit' solutions such as Furman. Instead, identify the anomaly. Then get a recommendation with a much lower profit that actually solves that anomaly. And says so with numbers.

A useful reply will always include the relevant specification numbers. Myths are quickly identified by subjective claims.

 

[TimmyP1955]

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