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Automated Fixtures Powering Movers

Discussion in 'Lighting and Electrics' started by MikeyHP, Apr 15, 2009.

  1. MikeyHP

    MikeyHP Member

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    Hi, I need to put four MLs on two electrics... Problem is that there is no straight power, just dimmed power. I tried putting an American DJ accuscan on a parked 100% dimmer but it destroyed the scanner. how can I power my movers?
     
  2. thommyboy

    thommyboy Active Member

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    simple answer which you won't like - You can't.
     
  3. Ric

    Ric Active Member

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    +1

    it's straight power to movers or nothing.
     
  4. MikeyHP

    MikeyHP Member

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    What about a NON-DIM module
     
  5. gafftapegreenia

    gafftapegreenia CBMod CB Mods

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    Occupation:
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    Lets start with this:

    What brand and model of dimming equipment do you have?

    What model movers are you trying to power?
     
  6. derekleffew

    derekleffew Resident Curmudgeon Senior Team Premium Member

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    MikeyHP, what make and model are your dimmers? I'm assuming the dimmers are hard-wired to the electrics' connector strips (dimmer-per-circuit situation)?
     
  7. MikeyHP

    MikeyHP Member

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    My dimming system is an 2 ETC Sensor (non +) racks installed in 2004 (building built in 2004) the system is hard wired from dimmer room to the electrics. there is no patch panel (only soft patch) The movers are 3 MAC 250s and 1 Cyberlight and possibley a accuscan if I need it. I have a capacity of (and have) 130 dimmers for the stage in total... The other remaing of the 192 dimers go to house lights and black box
     
  8. derekleffew

    derekleffew Resident Curmudgeon Senior Team Premium Member

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    The Cyberlight is switch selectable only for 208V or 230V, so that's a problem.

    For the other fixtures, talk to your favorite ETC dealer about an R-20 or CC-20 Sensor module.
     
  9. Sony

    Sony Active Member

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    Occupation:
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    [-][/-]
    A non-dim module would work as long as it's a CC-20 module or an R-20 Module PARKED at full.
     
  10. zuixro

    zuixro Active Member

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    We had 4 Studio Spot 575's for a recent show. We put Twistlock to edison adapters on them, ran twistlock over to the loading gallery, then Edison to twistlock adapters and plugged them into 2 separate 20a circuits. Our fly system is set up really weird though so that might not work for you. Our loading gallery is about at the trim height for most of our battens. (please note that I did not give any rigging advice)
     
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2009
  11. len

    len Well-Known Member

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    Except for the cyber, you could run the other 3 Mac on one 20A 110v circuit assuming they are on the same electric. Chances are there's a convenience outlet somewhere. It's not ideal, but it could be done.
     
  12. NickJones

    NickJones Active Member

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    I don't know about your patching situation, but with all ours, I just plug it in, and instead of plugging it into the back of the dimmer, I just plug it into a powerboard with switches in it. This may not be the case if you are using Socca or somthing like that, but you could put a breakout on it or somthing? Also, check to see if your dimmers have different dimmer profiles, I can't say specificly if your ETC one can, as I use primarily LSC dimming gear, but with one of ours there is a dimmer profile that is AoN (All or Nothing) once it recieves a signal above about 60%, it switches the channel on, and anything below, the channel is turned off. So it works as an electronic swich.
    Also, when plugging things into a dimmer, only use conventional fixtures, if it has any kind of circitry inside it, it can't be dimmed. At one stage I had my desk lamp, and everyone else's desk lamp on a dimming channel. Looks very cool to have everyone's lamps chasing!
    Nick
     
  13. fredthe

    fredthe Active Member

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    Setting a dimmer profile for on/off is not the same as physically installing a relay or constant module. When a dimmer switches on, it can create a spike that will kill the power supply of a mover.

    The only solution is either a constant/relay module as previously suggested, or a long power cable to an appropriate outlet.

    -Fred
     
  14. icewolf08

    icewolf08 CBMod CB Mods

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    Occupation:
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    First off, the OP told us that there is no hardpatch, it is a DPS (Dimmer Per Circuit) system. So, unless there are convenience outlets on raceways or he wants to jump non dimmed power up to a batten it has to come through the existing wiring. This means use of non-dim cards in the rack, either the R-20 or CC-20 modules. CC-20's are significantly less expensive but you would have to either fly the fixtures in and turn them off every night or flip the breakers on the module to turn them off as the CC-20 is not controllable.

    As has been mentioned, setting a dimmer to "Switched" or "AoN" or any other non-dim type mode is not the same as a true non dim module. The SCR/SSR still switches even at full, which breaks up the waveform just enough to cause bad things to happen. I know that [user]STEVETERRY[/user] has posted some scope images of output waveforms from dimmers somewhere here and you can see the switching action of the dimmer even at full. There is only one fixture that I know of currently on the market that specifically says that it is OK to use it on a dimmer set to "switched," and that is the Source Four Revolution.

    As for your desk lamp, unless you have some fancy lamp or you are using LEDs or CFLs, it should be fine. Most desk lamps I have met are just a simple switch which would not be affected by a dimmer. So I suspect that there is more to your desk lamp story than what you have told us. Also, there are devices aside from conventional fixtures that can be used on a dimmer. For instance, the GAM TwinSpin, which has a wall wart transformer is dimmable.
     
  15. rochem

    rochem Well-Known Member

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    Maybe I'm oversimplifying this a bit, but couldn't you just run cable from a wall outlet somewhere on stage and pick the cable up to the electric, then plug the movers into this? Obviously this wouldn't work for the Cyberlight, but would it not work for the Macs?
     
  16. icewolf08

    icewolf08 CBMod CB Mods

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    Occupation:
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    Yup, you can, and many people do, it is called a cable pick. Just make sure that you do it with stage cable and not some extension cord from Home Cheapo. Sometimes this is tricky if you don't have something to tie off to properly. As with any rigging situation, you need to know what you are doing to do this safely.
     
  17. willbb123

    willbb123 Active Member

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    In less then a year I am going to be in the same position as the OP. For a few weeks we are going to be renting movers, and there are no constant outlets on the electrics.
    So my options are run a pick or use our two constant current units. Luckily we have lighting dedicated circuits on our half cats that will be pretty easy to run to. So it will just depend on how many movers I end up getting and where I want to put them.

    The only thing I don't like about the ETC Sensor CC units is that, no matter what you do they are going to take two adjacent circuits. Which works fine in theory (but what doesn't :rolleyes:). So if I want to put two movers on opposite ends of our electric, I would either have to put one CC unit and run cable to the other end, or use two CC units and have 2 unusable circuits. Either way kinda stinks cause we keep a REP plot and most of the circuits have lights.

    Cause I'm lazy, and don't want to have to strike, then restore, our source 4s I am probably going to hang the movers on a batten and run a pick to them.

    As the OP learned the hard way... Unless its a dimmable light, it doesn't belong on a dimmer.
     
  18. Esoteric

    Esoteric Well-Known Member

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    Also keep in mind that the lamp is not the only thing drawing power from a moving light. So make sure that you know the actual power draw from your moving lights before you start twofering units. I have a client who keeps killing LPSs in Studio Command 700s because they are twofering them (the unit draws just over 10A total) into a 20A circuit.

    Mike
     

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