Vintage Lighting pre-halogen lamp types/codes for Altman 360 (radial, not Q)?

Discussion in 'Lighting and Electrics' started by htroberts, Sep 13, 2019 at 9:28 AM.

  1. htroberts

    htroberts Member

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    Sorry if this has been answered before, but I searched and didn't see it. (I also Googled, but the results are heavily skewed to the 360Q).

    Does anyone have a reference for the pre-halogen (i.e. not EGE/EGG) lamps that were appropriate for Altman 360s? (again, not the later 360Q)

    Follow-on would be whether they're possible to find these days...

    Thanks in advance.
    Heath
     
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  2. RonHebbard

    RonHebbard Well-Known Member Premium Member

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    @htroberts From memory: 500T12/9 with many end users installing 750T12/9's, 250 watts more than the Altman 360's reflectors and ventilation were designed to handle. Either lamp is likely 'unobtaineum' in this day and age. I'm amazed you could squeeze a BTL into an Altman 360. A BTL is WRONG for so many reasons: The BTL is a T20 and thus 2 1/2 " in diameter and also has an appreciably shorter LCL. I've heard BTL's can still be found but you MOST emphatically DO NOT want BTL's in your Altman 360's; Altman 6" Fresnels, yes, sure, but NOT in your Altman 360's.
    Toodleoo!
    Ron Hebbard
     
  3. derekleffew

    derekleffew Resident Curmudgeon Senior Team Premium Member

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    Incorrect. BTL is the 500w T-6 quartz-iodide version of the incandescent 500T20/64 (ANSI code: DNW) used in the Altman 65 and many other 6" Fresnel s. LCL is 2-3/16" as opposed to the 3-1/2" of the 500T12/9 (DNS) or EGE.

    A search for 750T12/9 returns this Amazon link as well as many eBay hits.
    [​IMG]
     
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  4. htroberts

    htroberts Member

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    okay, so:

    a: is this a quartz-halogen lamp or (what? evacuated?) incandescent?
    b: this is a 750W lamp, which is "too hot" according to original design intent of the 360?

    (I searched earlier for 500T20/9 on eBay & amazon and found nothing--500T12/9 turns up one listing--we're saying the 360 uses a T12 lamp with a 1-1/2" envelope, yes?--T20 sounded too large...)

    again, thanks
     
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  5. derekleffew

    derekleffew Resident Curmudgeon Senior Team Premium Member

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    It's a pre-T/H, incandescent stage/studio lamp.

    I've never heard that the Altman 360 could not take a 750w lamp. It might be that the 750w didn't exist at the beginning of the 360's life, but I doubt it.

    Don't make me call @ship or @DELO72 . ;)
     
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  6. RonHebbard

    RonHebbard Well-Known Member Premium Member

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    @htroberts T20's would definitely be too large. I was INCORRECT when I mentioned the BTL, I was remembering its T20 500 watt medium pre focus based incandescent predecessor.
    Toodleoo!
    Ron Hebbard
     
  7. DELO72

    DELO72 Well-Known Member

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    Have you tried contacting Altman? If anyone would know.... Sorry, this information predates my knowledge by many years. If you could find out the LCL of the former lamp, I could look it up in my ANSI booklet (do a search on 500W P28s lamps with that LCL and a T12 envelope) and throw out some suggestions. Does it insert axially into a reflector, or does it sit upright like in Fresnels, in front of a spherical reflector?
     
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  8. derekleffew

    derekleffew Resident Curmudgeon Senior Team Premium Member

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    Neither. It's a radial ERS.

    [​IMG]


    Well, what do ya know? Correcting myself, the attached cutsheet (360-6x9.pdf), from 11/91, says "UL Listed for 500 watts."

    However, I dare say...putting a 750w EGG in a 360-6x9 is different (and safer) than putting an FEL 1000w in a 360Q-6x9.

    Just for fun, the cutsheet for 360-6x12 (360-6x12.pdf) from the same era DOES say a 750w lamp is permissible. I suspect...more room inside equals more chance for heat to dissipate and less likelihood of cracked lenses.

    @STEVETERRY , back in the day,
    How did your shop feel about lamping 360-6x9 with 750w?
    How about FEL in a 360Q-6x9?
    Be honest; you're under oath.
     

    Attached Files:

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  9. STEVETERRY

    STEVETERRY Well-Known Member

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    I have no knowledge of that, Senator--we had no 360 radial units in rental.

    But 1kW FEL in 360Q--all the time. Just used up a lot of sockets and shutters. That was the price of admission. :)


    ST
     
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  10. SteveB

    SteveB Well-Known Member

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    I have this memory of Tharon Musser describing a design she did with a ring of Altman 3.5” ellipsoidals, really packed together, all lamps with FEL’s. Dreamgirls maybe ?
     
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  11. htroberts

    htroberts Member

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    This seems you're suggesting the 500T12 is equivalent to a DNS, but it can't be--they have dramatically different diameters. I believe but am not positive the DNS is another quartz-halogen (or tungsten-halogen) lamp (actually, with the small diameter, it almost certainly is)...

    Thanks again for the info.
     
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  12. STEVETERRY

    STEVETERRY Well-Known Member

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    Are you sure it wasn't Ballroom?

    3.5 and FEL? No way--instant meltdown.

    ST
     
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  13. SteveB

    SteveB Well-Known Member

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    Sounds likely, as Dreamgirls was the stair thing with steps that changed colors. Tharon did that as well, but this is 35 years ago, memories as fuzzy......
     
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  14. ship

    ship Senior Team Emeritus Premium Member

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    DNS G.E. #21795 CL, Incd. (HRG) 500 w T-12 c-13D LCL 3.1/2" P-28s (Base Up ±30°) Low Noise 2,950°K 11,000 Lum 200hr
    DNS/FMC Osram/Sylvania #64655 (500T6) CL, Quartz 500 w T-6 c-13D LCL 3.467" Med Pf (CRI 100) Any Pos. 3,050°K 11,000 Lum 500hr
    DNS Philips #44483-6 CL, Incd. 500 w T-12 c-13D LCL 3.1/2" P-28s Base Down to Horz. 3,050°K 10,200 Lum 200hr
    FMC/DNS Ushio #1000208 (JCS120v-500wB2P28) CL, Quartz 500 w T-19mm c-13D LCL 3.1/2" P-28s/24 Base Up ±30° 3,050°K 11,000 Lum 500
    DNS/FMC Wiko CL, Incd. 500 w T-12 c-13D LCL 88.9mm P-28s 3,000°K 11,000 Lum 200hr
    DNS Halco CL, Incd. 500 w T-12 c-13D P-28s Base Up 3,050°K 11,000 Lum 200hr
    EGC G.E. #39134 5/CL, Quartz (HRG) 500 w. T-12 cc-8 LCL 3.1/2" P-28s Universal Burn Position 3,150°K 12,700 Lum 500
    EGC/EGD Osram/Sylvania #54644 (Q500/5CL/P) 500 w. T-4 Med. Pf 13,000 Lum 150hr
    EGC/EGD Ushio #1000273 (JCV120v-500wC) CL, Quartz 500 w. T-14mm cc-8 LCL 3.1/2" P-28s/24 Any Burn Pos. 3,150°K 12,700 Lum 500
    EGC Wiko CL, Quartz 500 w T-4 cc-8 LCL 88.9mm P-28s 3,200°K 13,000 Lum 300hr
    EGC Norman Lamps 5/CL, Quartz 500 w T-12 LCL 3.1/2" Med.Pf 3,150°K 12,700 Lum 500hr
    EGC Halco CL, Quartz 500 w T-4 cc-8 P-28s Any Burn Pos. 3,150°K 12,700 Lum 500hr

    EGE G.E. #39135 CL, Quartz (HRG) 500 w. T-4 cc-8 LCL 3.1/2" P-28s (18x5mm Filmt.) Universal Burn Position 2,950°K 10,450 Lum 2,000
    EGE Philips #26969-6 CL, Quartz 500 w. cc-8 LCL 3½” Med. Pf (100 CRI) 3,000°K 10,000 Lum 2,000hr
    EGE Osram/Sylvania #54648 (Q500CL/P), CL, Quartz 500 w T-4 LCL 88.9mm Med. Pf Any Burn Pos. 3,000°K 10,450 Lum 2,000hr
    EGE Ushio #1000274 (JCV120v-500wB) CL, Quartz 500 w. T-14mm cc-8 LCL 88.9mm P-28s/24 Any Burn Pos. 3,000°K 10,450 Lum 2,000hr
    EGE Wiko CL, Quartz 500 w T-4 cc-8 LCL 88.9mm P-28s 3,000°K 10,000 Lum 2,000hr
    EGE Norman Lamps CL, Quartz 500 w T-4 LCL 3.1/2" Med.Pf 2,950°K 10,450 Lum 2,000hr
    EGE Halco CL, ?Incd. 500 w ?G-9.1/2 cc-8 P-28s Any Burn Pos. 2,950°K 10,450 Lum 2,000hr

    and the 750w
    DNT G.E. #22100 (?disc.) (Disc.) CL, Incd (HRG) 750 w. T-12 c-13D LCL 3.1/2" P-28s Base Up ±30° 17,000 Lum 200hr
    DNT/FMD Osram/Sylvania #54658 (750T7) CL, Quartz 750 w. T-7 LCL 88.9mm Med.Pf Base UP to Horz. 3,050°K 17,000 Lum 500hr
    DNT/FMD Ushio #1000209 (JCS120v-1000wCP28) CL, Quartz 750 w. T-22mm c-13D LCL 3.1/2" P-28s/24 Base Up ±30° 3,050°K 17,000 Lum 500hr
    DNT/FMD Wiko CL, Quartz 750 w T-12 c-13D LCL 88.9mm P-28s 3,050°K 17,000 Lum 200hr
    DNT Halco CL, Quartz 750 w T-7 c-13D P-28s Any Burn Pos. 3,050°K 17,000 Lum 200hr
    EGF G.E. #31936 4/Cl, Quartz (HRG) 750 w T-6 cc-8 LCL 3.1/2" P-28s Any Burn Position 3,200°K 20,400 Lum 500hr
    EGF Ushio #1000275 (JCV120v-750wC) CL, Quartz 750 w T-19mm cc-8 LCL 3.1/2" P-28s Any Burn Pos. 3,200°K 20,400 Lum 500hr
    EGF Wiko CL, Quartz 750 w cc-8 LCL 88.9mm P-28s 3,200°K 20,000 Lum 250hr
    EGF Norman Lamps CL, Quartz 750 w T-6 LCL 3.1/2" Med.Pf 3,200°K 20,400 Lum 500hr
    EGG G.E. #39137 CL, Quartz (HRG) 750 w. T-6 cc-8 LCL 3.1/2" P-28s Any Burn Position 2,900°K 15,750 Lum 2,000hr
    EGG Osram/Sylvania #54652 (Q750CL/P), CL, Quartz 750 w. T-5 Med. Pf 15,000 Lum 2,000hr
    EGG Philips #26973-8 CL, Quartz 750 w. cc-8 LCL 3.1/2" Med. Pf (100 CRI) 3,000°K 15,000 Lum 2,000hr
    EGG Ushio #1000276 (JCV120v-750wB) CL, Quartz 750 w T-19mm cc-8 LCL 3.1/2" P-28s Any Burn Pos. 3,000°K 15,750 Lum 2,000hr
    EGG Wiko CL, Quartz 750 w cc-8 LCL 88.9mm P-28s 3,000°K 15,000 Lum 2,000hr
    EGG Norman Lamps CL, Quartz 750 w T-6 LCL 3.1/2" Med.Pf 3,000°K 15,750 Lum 2,000hr
    EGG Halco CL, Quartz 750 w T-6 cc-8 P-28s Any Burn Pos. 3,000°K 15,000 Lum 2,000hr
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Sep 14, 2019 at 9:26 PM
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  15. STEVETERRY

    STEVETERRY Well-Known Member

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    Err...the iconic lighted steps were in the Will Rogers Follies, for which Jules Fisher won the Best Lighting Design Tony award in 1991.

    The steps were perhaps the first onstage use of the then-new 3M light control films, known as SOLF and TRAF. The steps were end-fed by fixtures that had the ill-fated, never-ever-worked-right Rosco scroller designed by Jack Jester. If ever a scenic application needed LED tape--that was it.

    ST
     
  16. derekleffew

    derekleffew Resident Curmudgeon Senior Team Premium Member

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    It's certainly confusing. My 1979 GE stage/Studio Lamp pocket catalog lists DNS, DNT as ANSI codes for 500T12/9 and 750T12/9, but "modern" sources certainly more resemble EGE, EGG. I guess maybe the ANSI specs changed over time?

    radial_ers_lamps.jpg
     

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