Problem with PGX system

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New CB member [user]Falcao[/user] just sent me this PM. I'm not an expert at troubleshooting wireless systems. So I share his question with you. Welcome to the Booth Falcao. Be sure to stop in the new member forum and introduce yourself. Don't be afraid to post questions in the future. We don't bite... well most of us don't bite. :rolleyes:
I am VERY exasperated with my new PGX systems. I do live street performances with a team of performers using prerecorded music from an iPod. We perform for crowds of about 1500 people in open air venues. I have six(6) PGX systems, two that are the SM 58 hand held and four that are the PGX1 with the headset application. I only have two or three (at the most) microphones open at a time, the others are either off or muted. All of them are the H6 frequencies. I am trying to use them here in Bogota Colombia.

Everything is new. New cords, New mixer, New speakers, New Sub, New microphones..... Anyways what is happening is that the Mics will just cut out and dropout, some time to the point where they only will pick up a very few amount of words, some times to the point where they wont work at all. I do not sing, I only talk. I have noticed that the 'Ready Light' flashes off when this happens. I am guessing some kind of Frequency interference.

My basic set up is simple: I set my Mackie CFX-12 mixer on a table and plug all the receivers in 6 separate channels using an XLR cable from there two XLR cables run to my QSC K-12 speakers (these are powered speakers) and one to my QSC KW-181 sub. All of which plugs in to two power strips.

I have turned off the mixer and the speakers and sub and the ready light on the receivers still flashes off. So it must be some kind of inner interference. I have tried changing the group to a few different ones to no avail. I have also tried ever way of re-syncing them and they stay the same. The more microphones that are in use the worse it gets, also the louder the music the worse it gets.

I am really at my end with this system. They have already destroyed four important presentations that I have done. I have tried to use both 1/4 unbalanced cords and the XLR balanced. The truth is that I am out of my league and doing everything I can to just get things working. I am performer not a sound guy, the equipment and sound 'duty' kinda got dropped on me and I am learning as I go.

Taking the easy route to start the discussion... how often do you change the batteries and are you talking about the light on the transmitter or the receiver?

The official expected battery life on those is about 8 hours. General practice is to change batteries at the start of every event. If the event is a long one I would change about every 3 or 4 hours to be sure they won't die on you.
 
New CB member Falcao just sent me this PM. I'm not an expert at troubleshooting wireless systems. So I share his question with you. Welcome to the Booth Falcao. Be sure to stop in the new member forum and introduce yourself. Don't be afraid to post questions in the future. We don't bite... well most of us don't bite. :rolleyes:


Taking the easy route to start the discussion... how often do you change the batteries and are you talking about the light on the transmitter or the receiver?

The official expected battery life on those is about 8 hours. General practice is to change batteries at the start of every event. If the event is a long one I would change about every 3 or 4 hours to be sure they won't die on you.

Thanks alot for posting this and helping me out as I amstill learning my way around the forum. I use Rechargable Energizer batteries ( the expensive ones) and change them out after ever presentation. i only present for 3 hours max. I was refering to the 'Ready' light that is on the front of the receiver. Thanks again-Falcao
 
That's probably okay. At 3 hours you are pushing the limits of how far I would trust a rechargable. But as long as you don't see a change in the red light on the transmitter to glowing solid, the battery is probably not the cause of the dropout.

How far away are the transmitters from the receivers?

Have you done your homework on which frequencies are used by TV and others in the area to avoid conflicts?
 
I'm not sure how frequency agile PGX is, but I seem to remember it is very limited. Can you figure out which channels each one is using and post it here, along with the bandsplit? It'll be something like "PGX1-H5". We'll also need your zip code so we can look for interfering signals.
 
I got a PM like that too...
H6 is US TV 23-25, quick Googling says South America generally follows the same band plan.

This IS Colombia, so I am going to hazard a guess that regulation (and enforcement thereof) of the spectrum is a little bit erm lax.

I haven't had the time to read through the fault description thoroughly, but it sounds a lot like RF interference in some way shape or form...
 
Just a question. Are you running them through some kind of antenai distro?

Also if not how are the receivers mounted in relation to the others.

How far away is the receivers from the mics?

Is it a clear line of sight between the two?
 
Is the ready light on the receiver off or flashing? On the PGX the ready light apparently has more to do with the frequency programming than with RF signal strength, so how are you programming the units? I would first try the automatic setup for multiple units that is described in the manual. First, turn on all receivers and assign then all to the same Group. Then then turn on one transmitter and open the battery compartment to expose the IR port. Point the IR port at the related receiver and press the "Sync" button on the receiver. Hold the "Sync" button until the red light on the receiver and transmitter stop and the receiver's "Ready" light glows green. Then close the battery port on that transmitter but leave it on and repeat the process for the next transmitter and receiver pair. Continue this process until you have all six transmitters and receivers programmed, being sure each time that the previous transmitter and receiver pairs are still on. If you can;t get all six units to accept the programming then you may have to start over with a different Group.

You can manually program the Groups and Channels for the receivers and transmitters but unless you know what other RF sources may be in the area and do the related Intermodulation calculations, you may just end up having to try a number of different combinations and hoping one works.
 
Just a question. Are you running them through some kind of antenai distro?

Also if not how are the receivers mounted in relation to the others.

How far away is the receivers from the mics?

Is it a clear line of sight between the two?

Hello thanks every one for all of there input. To answer a few questions everyone asked: I am only using them about thirty feet from the receiver, MAX. There is a clear line between the two. I set the six receivers on a table in two rows of three. They are spaced out about six inches in each row and the rows are spaced out a foot apart.
I have tried both the automatic sycn process and also the manual. I have so far tried group 0,1,4and 9 but with the same results.
I am looking in to what Chris mentioned as far as TV channels and will fill everyone in as soon as I know something.

Thanks again everyone-Falcao
 
Is the ready light on the receiver off or flashing?

The ready light on the receiver is on steady except for when it dropout or cut off then it flashes off and then quickly comes back on until it cuts out again.

I have tried to sync them like you said and also manual but to no avail
 
Just a question. Are you running them through some kind of antenai distro?

This is PGX, the antenna are integral and non detachable...

I'm communicating off board with Falcao and looking into TV frequencies. Tis a shame I can't read Spanish at this juncture ;)
 
Tis a shame I can't read Spanish at this juncture ;)

Google Language Tools helps for gross understanding, though it tends to botch some of the technical jargon. I use it when going through Latin American Power Plant Maintenance Contracts, BUT I also have a Technical Span to Eng Dictionary next to me.
 
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Google Language Tools helps for gross understanding, though it tends to both some of the technical jargon. I use it when going through Latin American Power Plant Maintenance Contracts, BUT I also have a Technical Span to Eng Dictionary next to me.

The main document in question is http://www.cntv.org.co/cntv_bop/servicio_cober/espectro/utilizacion_frecuencias.pdf, where from page 50 onwards it gives the frequency allocations, but the whole document is too big for Google Translate to process.

I sure am glad that numbers transcend language barriers for the most part ;)
 
The main document in question is http://www.cntv.org.co/cntv_bop/servicio_cober/espectro/utilizacion_frecuencias.pdf, where from page 50 onwards it gives the frequency allocations, but the whole document is too big for Google Translate to process.

I sure am glad that numbers transcend language barriers for the most part ;)

I happen to have a Colombian National sitting next to me, any particular section you want me to have her look at? I just downloaded the document.
 
I have worked with the PGX systems, and have had problems similar to what you are describing. The best I can tell, I think that the PGX line just has a weaker resistance to RF interference. Ours buzz occasionally, and have dropped the signal just like yours. Try to minimize the distance from the transmitter to the receiver, that seems to help.

Yeah, unfortunately the PGX's do not support ant. distribution.
 
It would be interesting to know where the local TV transmitters are in relation to where you perform. A major city like Bogota (population 7. 3 Million) could be a very challenging RF environment. The PGX receivers are not very robust in terms of selectivity because they are inexpensive. The fact that they tune across 18 MHz means they essentially don't have a tuned first RF stage, which makes them highly vulnerable to getting clobbered. Even if they are tuned to empty channels, they may be getting overloaded by strong signals from many different sources and hit with intermod products.

You might have to step up to higher quality receivers to get decent results. This is why many wireless systems cost a lot more. You can run 12 PGX mics together on a good day, provided the location is in a rural area, away from other RF sources. :grin:
 

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