Proper Source Four 750 Spotlight Configuration and Safety

logan683

Member
Firstly, let me start by saying hello and yes, this is my first post. Not sure how I ever missed this place.

I have a situation and question I would like to post. Basically, it's the email I just sent to ETC, but I am also seeking the support and advice of other professionals and experienced, knowledgeable individuals. I would like to say that I believe it is obvious what my thoughts are about safety and operation in a situation such as this.

Thank you for your input. The email went as follows:

***I am a lighting designer and I was recently working with a community theatre on a show and encountered a situation where I am seeking official manufacturer support and guidance for proper operator safety and equipment usage.

On this particular production, I was asked to come in late to fill in as a spotlight operator. The two Source Four 750 fixtures being used were hung on the top rail of a catwalk, which, if not being used as spotlights (in this particular situation), is perfectly acceptable. However, in such a configuration, myself and the other spotlight operator were having difficulty operating the fixtures in this manner since the pan screws (which I don't think should ever be removed for operation in this manner) had been removed from the yokes which made them extremely jumpy and look very sloppy in operation. Even using the two bolt-on handles did not help this. I did not have an opportunity to fix this upon walking to my station and sitting down as I was not given an opportunity until just before curtain.

The next day, I inverted the configuration of one, intending to do the other, as mounting the fixture in this manner for spotlight usage is acceptable. I lubricated the spud and pan screws, which was reinserted and tightened enough to allow stability yet free motion and was preparing to flip and spin the fixture for accessibility to the iris when I was asked, by a public library theatre employee, what I was doing. I explained I inverted the configuration for safety and operational usage, and why I did such. I would also like to note I was also taught to loop the hook through the loop on the end of the safety cable and clip it on itself for added redundancy, so I also do this every time.

The tech neither inspected the fixture I had inverted nor the other which had yet to be. He suggested we reach out over the catwalk and hold the barrel in one hand for aiming. The catwalk is approximately 20'-25' above the audience and the other spotlight operator had already mentioned multiple times the night before how she didn't like heights and how uncomfortable she was and how the operation of the spotlights (before I was able to begin inverting) made her wonder about safety issues. Yet he suggested to reach out over the audience for extended periods, sometimes 3-5 minutes at a time, holding the barrel to aim. I suggested that wasn't the safest, best operational setup at which point I was asked to leave.

I have a meeting with library management and was simply seeking an official answer as to the following:
Is it preferable and safer to lean out over a catwalk for extended periods holding a hot Source Four 750 barrel, gloves aside, or to invert the fixture and allow operation from an upright position with handles as conventional spotlights typically are?

I know what my safety and operational standards are (I inverted the fixtures and re-installed the handles), but official word would be greatly appreciated. As this is a public library and a Children's show, safety is obviously of the utmost importance and I feel it is very necessary to make sure a public place for art is as safe as it should be, how to make it so, and why it matters so much.

I thank you so very much for your time and any official answer that would be offered as far as safety and operation. ***

I would like to thank anyone that read this and would be willing to offer an opinion or a story or any experience in matters such as the above.

Thank you for the time, I really do appreciate it.
 
Being required to lean - over an edge at height or in a shop - is not good design.

I don't know all the background but don't think the pan set screw in itself adds much fixture safety, but I suppose it could fall itself, creating a hazard.

I don't see a problem in mounting fixture upright in this situation.

A picture would always help.
 
Being required to lean - over an edge at height or in a shop - is not good design.

I don't know all the background but don't think the pan set screw in itself adds much fixture safety, but I suppose it could fall itself, creating a hazard.

I don't see a problem in mounting fixture upright in this situation.

A picture would always help.


Hi. Thank you so much for the reply and you are accurate.

https://goo.gl/images/f5VbE3
That is the initial configuration, with no pan screw (which from my engineering background I feel could also be called a stabilizing bolt or stabilization bolt, but that's just me being technical), essentially (I borrowed this image from Google, but exactly the same).

https://goo.gl/images/DoY1tf
This is another borrowed image, yet the exact configuration I put the fixture in.

To be as accurate as possible, the fixture was hanging down from the top catwalk rail between the top and bottom rails. I inverted it so that the clamp was in the bottom rail and the fixture was still between the top and bottom rail, so essentially there was minimal change in the Z axis in space.

Again, thank you for reading. :)
 
Being required to lean - over an edge at height or in a shop - is not good design.

I don't know all the background but don't think the pan set screw in itself adds much fixture safety, but I suppose it could fall itself, creating a hazard.

I don't see a problem in mounting fixture upright in this situation.

A picture would always help.

Also, the fixture has to be mounted between the rails because right at the top rail where the circuits come in is also, what I believe, a large HVAC duct that basically goes from the top rail and sits against the ceiling where it slopes down, so we were asked to reach out between the rails with really nothing to hold on to above. It would have entailed squatting down or kneeling then reaching out between the rails and holding the fixture by the barrel with one hand and the back of the fixture or yoke in the other. To me, that begins to add excess weight to the yoke bolt, which was the only thing holding the fixture after the pan screw was removed.

I believe that is as accurately as I can describe the situation.

Thank you so much. :)
 
Also, the fixture has to be mounted between the rails because right at the top rail where the circuits come in is also, what I believe, a large HVAC duct that basically goes from the top rail and sits against the ceiling where it slopes down, so we were asked to reach out between the rails with really nothing to hold on to above. It would have entailed squatting down or kneeling then reaching out between the rails and holding the fixture by the barrel with one hand and the back of the fixture or yoke in the other. To me, that begins to add excess weight to the yoke bolt, which was the only thing holding the fixture after the pan screw was removed.

I believe that is as accurately as I can describe the situation.

Thank you so much. :)
@logan683 Check this link to City Theatrical's Accessories for legitimately using any Source Four as a follow-spot:
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Toodleoo!
Ron Hebbard.
 
I don't think there is anything truly problematic with having the fixture hung "yoke-over" as one would normally hang it, vs "yoke-under" like a traditional followspot on a stand. In the end, it come down to the clamp being used and traditional c-clamps are *theoretically* designed for hanging a fixture in any orientation. Consider also that in a "yoke-under" configuration, you are resting all of the weight of the fixture plus the motion on the tiny little pan-nut/jesus-bolt, if it loosens up, the whole unit with drop about 2-inches, which will likely make lots of noise and pop the lamp if it is hot.

At the end of the day, I don't see any truly functional safety issues with the yoke in either orientation, unless you are "yoke-over" and somehow working the yoke bolt loose as you pan the fixture around. This is assuming that the fixture was hung safely to begin with. As others have said, from an operator safety standpoint, you shouldn't have to lean over the rail to operate your fixture. I would also posit that in either yoke-over or yoke-under configuration, the yoke should be perfectly vertical or the operator is going to have a heck of a time following performers...

With all that in mind, I think that the setup should be done in such a way that the actual operator is comfortable in operating the fixture and it can be operated safely. I would also posit that since the Source 4 was not designed to be a followspot, that ETC's "official" answer will be something along the lines of: "it isn't a follow spot..."
 
With the exception of the few times I've seen one mounted on a stand like the city theatrical video above... Most of the S4's on a stick I've encountered were hung just like you found it, hung normally with the yoke above. Can't say that I've actually seen one being used as a follow spot in the roostered position. Thats just what I've encountered the most in my own experiences. If its a long term thing, get them to buy a couple mega clamps.
 
My experience is to prefer a yoke over set up ( icewolf I really like that term ). If it is yoke over I can tighten the yoke bolt, liisen the pan bolt, and the fixture semi smoothly will pan.

If yoke under, I have to tighten the pan bolt, then loosen the yoke bolt to allow panning. This make the whole thing unstable as it tend s or loosen or tighten during the show. ( also it does not feel as safe to me )
 
My experience is to prefer a yoke over set up ( icewolf I really like that term ). If it is yoke over I can tighten the yoke bolt, liisen the pan bolt, and the fixture semi smoothly will pan.

If yoke under, I have to tighten the pan bolt, then loosen the yoke bolt to allow panning. This make the whole thing unstable as it tend s or loosen or tighten during the show. ( also it does not feel as safe to me )
@JChenault et al; Hands down, the City Theatrical follow-spot accessory with it's proper bearings is the best / right way to go. That said, another McGiver trick I've seen employed involves replacing the normal 1/2 - 13 yoke attachment bolt, the one that fastens the yoke to the C-clamp's spigot, or spud if you prefer, with a longer bolt that's threaded its full length. This new bolt is inserted in the yoke hole like normal and then a 1/2-13 hex nut is tightened on securing the bolt to the yoke and ensuring the bolt will not rotate in relation to the yoke. One or two Vaseline lubricated 1/2" fender washers (1/2" holes in larger than normal diameter washers) are slipped over the remaining threads of the bolt before it's mated with the C-clamp's spigot / spud. Panning then occurs by inserting and removing the bolt from the clamp. Because the bolt is tightly secured to the yoke, it can't rotate sufficiently to disengage / un-mate as you're not likely panning your spot more then 180 to 270 degrees at the most.
NOTE: I'm not suggesting this as an ideal method, merely mentioning I've seen it employed as a means of achieving fairly stable, smooth, panning with essentially zero possibility of having the bolt loosen to the point of disengagement / separation.
As always: Employ a rated safety on the fixture AND a proper harness and deceleration lanyard on your operators dependent upon their location and height above finished floor. Add excrement and expectorate containers to suit if / as required. @GreyWyvern , thoughts?
Toodleoo!
Ron Hebbard.
 
Firstly, let me apologize for responding late.

I would like to thank everyone who had read this thread and participated so far. I know everyone is busy and your time is valuable, so I truly do appreciate all input and ideas. I would also like to be clear that I have no negative feelings towards any particular theatre or technician; I simply wanted the environment to be as safe as possible for the kids, and everyone, to be able to learn and gain experience and to allow as much positivity and creativity possible.

@BillConnerFASTC: "Being required to lean - over an edge at height or in a shop - is not good design.

I don't know all the background but don't think the pan set screw in itself adds much fixture safety, but I suppose it could fall itself, creating a hazard.

I don't see a problem in mounting fixture upright in this situation."

I wanted to say thank you for these thoughts. They are very valuable, and I feel the exact same way about the pan bolt. I am, and always have been, of the opinion that bolts like that are where they are for very specific reasons, therefore it is probably in my best interest and that of others and the equipment itself they remain in place and properly used.


@RonHebbard:. Thank you very much for the link. That is essentially the type of rig I was trying to create with the equipment I had in the safest, most comfortable configuration I could think of. When I mounted the fixture yoke down (inverted; upside down; roosterd, which I like, @josh88, etc.), I had removed the clamp from the spigot (thank you, @BillConnerFASTC, the term escaped me originally and I could only think of the slang) and lubricated the outside of the spigot, the inside of the clamp where it sits around the spigot, and some in the pan bolt so there was lubrication at the pan bolt-spigot connection point as well so I could tighten it just enough but not too much to be solid and stable and allow protection from having scoring the spigot.


@icewolf08: "Consider also that in a "yoke-under" configuration, you are resting all of the weight of the fixture plus the motion on the tiny little pan-nut/jesus-bolt, if it loosens up, the whole unit with drop about 2-inches, which will likely make lots of noise and pop the lamp if it is hot."

"I would also posit that in either yoke-over or yoke-under configuration, the yoke should be perfectly vertical or the operator is going to have a heck of a time following performers..."

I completely agree with everything you said. Also, thank you for pointing out the possibility of popping the lamp; that honestly hadn't crossed my mind. I was more thinking about placing all that weight on the single yoke bolt and all the movement associated with a follow spot. Plus, I found removing the pan bolt makes the spigot loose in the clamp and just plain wobbly and can be very jerky (for lack of better terms). I also figured that the whole initial configuration was basically fighting gravity too much for the particular purpose, so I had the exact same thoughts that flipping it over would essentially press everything together instead of having gravity constantly want to pull it apart.

As far as being vertical, you are again totally right. When I installed the fixture in the inverted position, I made sure to use a level to get it as close to vertical as possible.

@icewolf08, @JChenault, @BillConnerFASTC: "I don't think there is anything truly problematic with having the fixture hung "yoke-over" as one would normally hang it, vs "yoke-under" like a traditional followspot on a stand."

"My experience is to prefer a yoke over set up ( icewolf I really like that term ). If it is yoke over I can tighten the yoke bolt, liisen the pan bolt, and the fixture semi smoothly will pan."

"All things equal, I wish you could hang it from you rail, yoke down. I assume the stud or spigot if you prefer is setting on the pipe in yoke up position."

Again, thank y'all very much for the input. @BillConnerFASTC, yes, sir, the clamp is on the bottom rail spigot up. I felt the best configuration was in this manner, because I feel as @icewolf08 feels about the pan bolt providing stability (it seems to me, at least, the pressure the pan bolt places against the spigot and distributes through the clamp at the spigot connection relieves some of the tension from the yoke bolt when hung in a traditional fashion), but also that in the hanging configuration, there was a lot of movement and some stress placed on the yoke bolt and the connection point there. Personally, I felt that mounting the fixture in the inverted position, straight and level, lubricated and stable, at that point the clamp, mounted correctly and firmly to the bottom pipe, provided a strong base. It sure felt smooth and strong to me, anyway. I was pretty nervous about a hanging fixture over the audience with only a bolt and safety cable between. I know they're rated at 2,000 lbs., but still.


@RonHebbard:. Thank you so much for that MacGyver trick with the washers. Never crossed my mind, but I can see how that would allow even better operation, if the proper equipment isn't available. Honestly, I'm all for using the correct tool for the job, but of course this isn't always possible. Again, I just want things to be safest and the best they can be for all involved.

@josh88:. Thank you so much for that suggestion about mega clamps. I've honestly never used them, but I'll make sure I check them out.

Again, thank you everyone so much for the time and input and discussion and for teaching me things. :)
 
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@icewolf08: You were so right about the reply email from ETC, by the way. However, they did at least acknowledge something about my thermal concerns in a roundabout way. Here's the email:

***
Hi Logan,



The Source Four luminaire is not designed to be used or operated as a traditional followspot fixture. While many venues choose to use the fixture in this way, including the third-party after-market accessories to aid in this endeavor, we cannot comment on the safety of this use case except to publish surface operating temperatures (available here:http://www.etcconnect.com/Support/A...How-Much-Heat-Does-The-Source-Four-Emit-.aspx) and to warn not to touch the fixture while hot without appropriately rated personal protective equipment.



Likewise, ETC cannot comment on the safety of the working conditions that you describe. It is the sole and exclusive responsibility of the customer to determine the suitability of any location for luminaire mounting.



Thanks,



Kirk Starks***

I feel at least getting the thermal information through an official channel was a positive, for sure.
 
I have been trying to think of other ways I have rigged source 4 follow spots. I think the best solution I ever came up with was to take the spigot from a c-clamp, weld it to a piece of pipe, attache the fixture to the bolt end of the spigot, grease the pipe and slip the pipe inside a slightly larger pipe that could be safely clamped to the position. This allows nice fluid pan and a traditional followspot style "yoke-under" configuration. I suppose if you were really creative with some keeper hardware, you could invert this whole rig if you needed to.
 

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