Pyro's in the house?

[DiscoBoxer]

I am a licensed display operator located in Wisconsin. I have many years of experience doing pyrotechnics for indoor events as well as many many outdoor large scale displays. Also a certified Display Operator trainer. I wanted to do a feeler on the forum to see how many of us are out there?

If your not an operator, please feel free to list some of your experiences with pyrotechnics to get a dialog going. Thanks!

I assume the special effects forum would be the best place to post, let me know if not.

 

[shiben]

Im not an operator of this stuff, but I am interested in exploring it. How do you get involved in pyrotechnics as a career field as it were?

 

[cprted]

Another licensed pyrotechnician here. Looking at getting my display fireworks ticket in the near future.

 

[MNicolai]

I've mastered this really good way to use fireworks and black powder to blow up watermelons in my backyard, and this one time, my friends and I did this really cool thing with my neighbor's mailbox -- so yea, you could say I'm a qualified pyro operator.

 

[dramatech]

I have loaded and fired pyro in a number of shows, all in theme parks, where I worked under their license, and their certifications testing. The longest was a show that was performed 4 times a day for 10 months.
I have also loaded pyro for 4th of July events, and on several occasions repaired the detonators.
I have also custom built firing devices/detonators for a number of shows in 3 different theme parks.

 

[MNBallet]

I am a licensed display operator located in Wisconsin. I have many years of experience doing pyrotechnics for indoor events as well as many many outdoor large scale displays. Also a certified Display Operator trainer. I wanted to do a feeler on the forum to see how many of us are out there?

If your not an operator, please feel free to list some of your experiences with pyrotechnics to get a dialog going. Thanks!

I assume the special effects forum would be the best place to post, let me know if not.

yep......licensed in Minnesota, indoor. not outdoor 4th of july stuff though.

 

[gafftaper]

I'm sure there are a lot of people reading this wondering, "how do I get a job like that?" So tell us a little about the process of getting licensed. I'm sure it varies from state to state. What are the differences in licenses? How do you get a job shooting the big stuff on the 4th?

 

[DuckJordan]

I've mastered this really good way to use fireworks and black powder to blow up watermelons in my backyard, and this one time, my friends and I did this really cool thing with my neighbor's mailbox -- so yea, you could say I'm a qualified pyro operator.

I really hope your joking, And a +1 to learning more about becoming a Licensed Pyro.

 

[DiscoBoxer]

I'm sure there are a lot of people reading this wondering, "how do I get a job like that?" So tell us a little about the process of getting licensed. I'm sure it varies from state to state. What are the differences in licenses? How do you get a job shooting the big stuff on the 4th?

Im not an operator of this stuff, but I am interested in exploring it. How do you get involved in pyrotechnics as a career field as it were?

My suggestion for those that want to get involved is to check out the PGI- Pyrotechnics Guild International at: Fireworks

PGI is an international club that has a focus on amateur and profesional pyrotechnics. In the states specifically, they have become one of the best recognized resources to "becoming legal" by offering the Display Operators Course. This course is highly sought after by many AHJ (Authorities Having Jurisdiction) such as Municipalities, Fire, Police, Coast Gaurd, etc. as well as professional display providers. You can obtain your certification through PGI at their annual convention which moves to various states in the union.

Also look into some local pyro Guild's such as the WPAG-Wisconsin Pyrotechnic Arts Guild at: Home Page who may be closer to you and host the PGI Display Operators Certification class. I am a current member, as well as a former board member of this club and it is the 2nd largest pyro guild in the U.S.

Here are a list of some others:

Bluegrass Pyrotechnics Guild (Kentucky, Indiana, Ohio, Tennessee and surrounding)
Crackerjacks Fireworks Club (Virginia and East Coast)
Heartland Pyrotechnic Association (Tri-State Northern IL, and Southwest MI)
Iowa Pyrotechnic Association (Iowa and surrounding)
Missouri Pyrotechnics Association (Missouri and Southern IL)
MPAG-Michigan Pyrotechnic Arts Guild (Michigan)
New Hampshire Pyrotechnics Association (New England)
Northern Lighters (Minnesota)
Northern Lights Pyros Club (Northeast and Mid-Atlantic)
Northwest Pyrotechnic Arts Association (Northwestern)
Ohio Pyrotechnics Arts Guild (Ohio)
Oregon Fireworks Association (Oregon)
Pennslyvania Pyrotechnic Artist (Pennslyvania)
Prarie Thunder Pyro (North Dakota)
Pyrotechnic Artist of Texas (Texas)
Rocky Mountain Pyrotechnics Guild (South East)
Stumptown Shooters (Iowa and surrounding)
Western New York Pyrotechnic Association (New York)
Western Pyrotechnic Association (AZ, NV and western U.S.)

I believe that all of these clubs offer the PGI certification and can be a great resource for entering the professional field as well as amateur manufacturing (SAFELY/LEGALLY). Now, the laws can greatly vary from state to state. While PGI Cert. is not required by the FED and most states, many local municiaplities will request that at least the "Lead Operator" has it.

Many display companies experience their busy season around the 4th of July and are always looking for help. For instance a company I work with alot, sources out over 250 displays on the 4th alone. Some displays require over 100 people and some less than 10. Call them a couple months before hand to see if they will bring you in. It helps if you already have the PGI cert, but some companies do not require it and will train in-house. Because companies vary so much, and the risk factor is so high, I strongly encourage a proper certification and the PGI one is typically less than $75 and can be done and tested in one day. However, you will need to work a few shows under a certified "Lead Operator" as a part of the course completion. You must be 18yrs or older. I have accepted many "cold-calls" from guys wanting to help. If they sound responsible and meet some basic requirements (18yrs age, no felony, etc), than I ask them to come in.

This is the most basic and easy route. If you want to operate as your own "entity", than it becomes much more complex with many more steps at the Federal and State level. The biggest challenge in this category is providing Secure Legal Storage, HAZMAT Compliance, and Insurance. If anyone wants more details on this, I can help. Just PM me.

Just so that everyone knows, doing pro fireworks is hard and dirty work. For outdoor displays, mortar racks are heavy and can weigh a couple hundred pounds. There are shows I do that require hundreds of racks with mortar sizes form 3" to 16" in diameter. Plan for an exhausting day, but a very rewarding one. If you are fearful of guns or the like, than I wouldn't consider pyro. These types of fireworks are loud when ejecting from the mortars and the concussion can be felt from 30+ feet away. Not a job for the meek. If you like booms and firey bright flashes, than this may be your gig. You must be responsible and aware of safety at all times. Hundreds if not tens of thousands of lives count on every single person on the shoot site to be aware of their safety. To do indoor or proximate effects beyond your standard theatrical effects (flash pots, concussions, etc), usually requires more experience in the field. Not all, but most companies will want you to have worked on outdoor events and have experience with electrical firing systems, as a min. before considering putting you on an event like this. You must have a clear understanding of the product specs, fallout, air quality, site security, and NFPA rules before you can master proximate.

While some "Pyros" have a past that includes doing stupid things with fireworks out of ignorance and just plain fun, it can all turn south very quickly with results that last (or shorten) a lifetime, and I would not encourage illegal use and/or modification of devices beyond their intended purpose.

Also, like most jobs in the field of entertainment, you are very likely not going to get rich and will be paid little. You must enjoy it to grow a career. But it is one heck of an experience to do at least once, even better to do it often.

 

[DiscoBoxer]

I've mastered this really good way to use fireworks and black powder to blow up watermelons in my backyard, and this one time, my friends and I did this really cool thing with my neighbor's mailbox -- so yea, you could say I'm a qualified pyro operator.

MNicolai, hoping you are joking on the "qualified" part if this is the extent of your experience. While I am sure you may have had great fun, this type of thing is widely frowned upon in the industry. Unfortunately, there are many people and kids who have done similar things who thought it was of little risk, and have died because of it or have severely hurt themselves or others.

In return, the law has made it much more difficult (in many cases justified, some not) to be able to do pyrotechnics. Everytime there is a report of a child just getting burned by a sparkler because their parent was irresponsible in some state, the CPSC tries to do their best to influence more and more regulation on an already heavily regulated industry. It then requires more time and resources for those of us that choose to be 100% legal and 110% safe to find new ways to just stay in business.

This is a prime example for why I strongly encourage a proper certification, even if the display comapany does not require it.

 

[MNicolai]

MNicolai, hoping you are joking on the "qualified" part if this is the extent of your experience. While I am sure you may have had great fun, this type of thing is widely frowned upon in the industry. Unfortunately, there are many people and kids who have done similar things who thought it was of little risk, and have died because of it or have severely hurt themselves or others.

In return, the law has made it much more difficult (in many cases justified, some not) to be able to do pyrotechnics. Everytime there is a report of a child just getting burned by a sparkler because their parent was irresponsible in some state, the CPSC tries to do their best to influence more and more regulation on an already heavily regulated industry. It then requires more time and resources for those of us that choose to be 100% legal and 110% safe to find new ways to just stay in business.

This is a prime example for why I strongly encourage a proper certification, even if the display comapany does not require it.

While I'm glad to serve as an example, that was pure sarcasm to illuminate the line between "the guy who thinks he knows what he's doing" and a honest-to-goodness licensed pyro operator. I have no desire to be the next guy to set a nightclub on fire or to blow his own arm off at a gig (or in my backyard for that matter).

 

[venuetech]

While I'm glad to serve as an example, that was pure sarcasm to illuminate the line between "the guy who thinks he knows what he's doing" and a honest-to-goodness licensed pyro operator. I have no desire to be the next guy to set a nightclub on fire or to blow his own arm off at a gig (or in my backyard for that matter).

Well I am not shipping any watermelons to Wisconsin. (just to be safe)

 

[porkchop]

I'm a licensed indoor operator on a touring show, adds another twist to dealing with regulations.

 

[FatherMurphy]

It's worth noting that in addition to the PGI info above, the US Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms requires licensing and background checks for all personnel manufacturing or detonating explosives. Part of the post-9/11 Patriot Act, the rules were written with the demolition and mining industries in mind, but ended up covering pyro as well. Gone are the days of Pyropak A/B flash powder mixed in a bottle and poured into a flash pot... The act of mixing the two powders now counts as 'manufacturing', and flipping the switch for the pot now counts as 'detonating', both of which now require federal paper in your pocket.

 

[DiscoBoxer]

It's worth noting that in addition to the PGI info above, the US Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms requires licensing and background checks for all personnel manufacturing or detonating explosives. Part of the post-9/11 Patriot Act, the rules were written with the demolition and mining industries in mind, but ended up covering pyro as well. Gone are the days of Pyropak A/B flash powder mixed in a bottle and poured into a flash pot... The act of mixing the two powders now counts as 'manufacturing', and flipping the switch for the pot now counts as 'detonating', both of which now require federal paper in your pocket.

To provide more detail on the BATFE license, not everyone working on a display is required to have a license. But they must be under the supervision of a license holder or an "Employee Possessor". If they are working under persons with these two types of clearance, they must still meet the same requirments, less the background investigation. But the License holder is responsible for that person's actions.

The PGI as well as all of the other regional clubs have had to request clarification on this BATFE requirement, because all of them use their license as a canopy to cover all member manufacturing and discharging of Class B (1.3g) material. Without this allowance by the BATFE, none of the clubs could exist because this is one of the key benefits to being a member of such clubs......to provide a safe and legal venue for manufacture and use for amatuers. Display companies also tend to follow the same exception, even when "in commerce". They will list people on the license as "Employee Possessors", if they are lead operators, transporters, and have a need to work without supervision.

Many "theatrical" or proximate effects will try to avoid the hassle of the Federal License and DOT regulations by reducing charges and classifying their product as 1.4g (consumer) instead of 1.3g. This practice is heavily debated and still receives much scrutiny by the FED. You are correct in that the BATFE does classify the mixing of binary (flash) concussion mixes as manufacturing and you must have a license to do it. Which is understandable since flash is one of the most dangerous pyrotechnic materials to work with, especially if you do not know what you are doing.

 

[DiscoBoxer]

While I'm glad to serve as an example, that was pure sarcasm to illuminate the line between "the guy who thinks he knows what he's doing" and a honest-to-goodness licensed pyro operator. I have no desire to be the next guy to set a nightclub on fire or to blow his own arm off at a gig (or in my backyard for that matter).

Sorry, I got the sarcasm but wasn't sure if that was your intent since it shows only text without emotion. I do a "pyromusical" display every year near your area for an outdoor arts/concert in Mequon. You should come out to meet in person so that I will get your sense of humor in the future. LOL!

The famous Great White nightclub situation was a tragic one that has severely tarnished the industry. The band member who setup and fired the effects was an idiot because he used the wrong effects with the wrong specs, in the wrong venue. Also, he was not licensed or qualified to do what he was attempting. To add fuel to the fire, the folks running the nightclub were fools for not having proper egress by covering and chaining the exits to control unauthorized entry, and allowing such an activity to occur without proper research.

 

[DiscoBoxer]

I'm a licensed indoor operator on a touring show, adds another twist to dealing with regulations.

Porkchop, I imagine so. Are you using 1.4g or 1.3g effects? How do you deal with overnight storage away from a magazine?

 

[MPowers]

When I started in this silly business, filling a hollowed out fuse with flash powder and putting it in a porcelain socket was an approved method taught in colleges and written up in textbooks. We've come a long way. Used to be a shooter, long before that term was invented, but not any more. I don't get a call to shoot or design an FX often enough to make keeping current on the various certifications and liscences
needed today. I still design FX but refer clients to a local pyro company for execution and shooting. Got into pyro courtesy of my Uncle Sam. Combat Engineers and demolitions in Nam in the 60's. As one of my jobs, I blew up disabled or immobilized equipment, things that were too damaged or located where salvage was impractical. The goal was to leave nothing behind that could aid or be used by the enemy. I got real good a blowing things up. When I returned stateside, one of my first jobs was with a small family owned FX company in San Bernadino. Steve Hawkins and Sons. Problem was the sons wanted to get into computers, not FX and the company vanished in the early 70's. We did a lot of lift charges and fireballs for B- (or worse) films. The one cool thing we did was two parallel rows of palm trees, clipped clean about 20' high as a fighter plane flew between them. No CGI then, we had to make it look like the wing tips were clipping the trees. Not realistic you say! Well DUH! Realism wasn't the idea. Believability was. They trucked in 50 palms, about 30' tall and set them along a road about 10' wider than the plane's wing span. We made a 2" cut on the road side of the trees and put two wraps of det cord around them at the cut point. We then attached 1/8" black GAC about 4' above the cut and put roughly 200 lbs tension at 90 degrees to the road. The pilot made about a dozen passes along the road about 10' above the trees and then one between them at height. More guts/nerve than I ever had. We were shooting at 4:00 am just after dawn when winds were at zero. We had one take, make or break. The ignition device was a highly sophisticated device called a "Nail Board". State of the art timing device for machine gun hits and other tight sequential triggered events at that time. for those who don't know what a Nail Board is, it is a 2x4, as long as needed, with 16d nails driven through at precise intervals. Each nail is connected by wire to the single device it is to trigger. Another nail or steel rod held by the operator is attached to a 24VDC power source. When the hand held nail is drug across the row of nails in the board, it sets off the devices in a rapid but extremely even sequence. The last three trial passes of the plane, we had light bulbs on the palms connected to the nail board and the film crew did quick rushes for us to compare plane position with the lights to get timing down as best possible. Final pass for the take, the plane was flying just above stall speed, the pilot was perfect and IMHO it was pretty darn awesome. In the film they played it back at about 3 time the speed so it looked like the plane was at top speed. If you didn't have time to notice the trees fell a bit faster than gravity could account for, it looked pretty good. Never saw the completed film, but we did see a print of the road sequence. Villain is racing down the road in jeep, lots of shooting, flash/bang, gasoline lifts etc all around (my part of the job). Plane drops down to the tree row but doesn't shoot til the heroine breaks free and jumps from the jeep. Then the plane drops between the trees and starts strafing. Cut to the trees and plane, trees falling apart as the plane come through, cut back to the jeep, dummy jeep now pulled by a cable over a 15lb black powder lift with 3 lbs of corse iron filings, under 80 gallons of gasoline. BIG BOOM!!! Looked pretty cool.

Still was mixing and making my own flash powder, bullet hits and gerb FX in the middle 90's but the final straw was the station fire and 9/11. The results were good in that it wound up chasing the idiots and pretenders out, but it also made it very hard for the skilled but infrequent shooter to continue for economic and practical reasons. Harder now and a darn site more restrictive, but I have to concur that it is better and safer for our industry. Would I like to shoot now, of course! Do I think I have the skill and knowledge to pull off a safe shoot? Darn Right! Would I do it? Not on your life. It's a different world now.

 

[ptero]

It's worth noting that in addition to the PGI info above, the US Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms requires licensing and background checks for all personnel manufacturing or detonating explosives. Part of the post-9/11 Patriot Act, the rules were written with the demolition and mining industries in mind, but ended up covering pyro as well. Gone are the days of Pyropak A/B flash powder mixed in a bottle and poured into a flash pot... The act of mixing the two powders now counts as 'manufacturing', and flipping the switch for the pot now counts as 'detonating', both of which now require federal paper in your pocket.

Mostly, YEP! At my theatre, we have a Type 19 Manufacturing license, acquired 5 or more years ago. I am one of two "Responsible Persons", plus we have a handful of "Employee Possessor"s. I mix A/B flash powder routinely for theatrical use in flashpots. I also fire all flashpots. We are inspected about once a year, always by surprise. They have yet to be interested in how we use the product - it's all about how it is stored once mixed, and about acquisition and paperwork records. The Electric Matches are also controlled and covered under this license. The match and powder vendors require hard copy of the license w/original sig before shipping.

I recall one inspection was in process in an office and we set off the fire alarm with multiple flashpots in the Scottish Play, clearing the bldg. For the Agent/inspector, it didn't matter, he didn't care. He clearly felt that was not in his purview. He sat outside with his briefcase on his lap and continued working on paperwork as Firemen cleared the issue and life went on. btw, the University had changed the air handling in the bldg w/o notifying anyone and accepted the rap for causing this. We'd been running over two weeks w/no problems. Plus we had done testing as we put the show in to evaluate any sensor issues.

But, I am not aware of the need for 'paper'/licensing regarding detonating in theatrical use. Can you expand on that? I do the license app every 3 years(THAT'S a handful of paper!) and have had quite a bit of discussion w/BATF&E folks. It has never come up. They know very well I am the buyer, mixer and shooter and have never had any interest beyond acquisition and storage. That includes no interest in methodology - I could be using the most primitive methods. No. I'm not, but....

Anyway, I'd be interested in any info about this - back to the Orange Book? Or is it covered elsewhere than the Orange Book? Hmmmm.... Thanks for any information.

 

[ptero]

When I started in this silly business, filling a hollowed out fuse with flash powder and putting it in a porcelain socket was an approved method taught in colleges and written up in textbooks.

Hey Michael. You slipped as I was writing. Wasn't sure if details were ok... Yep, fuses, stranded copper/gator clips and nail boards. We (well 'they' in this case) made a live nail board with a 2x4 size length of solid plexi, w/many holes bored and contacts installed. The holes got loaded (Michael!) and sweeping the contact board across that got a pretty good machine gun.

the final straw was the station fire and 9/11.

Oh, I hear ya. Happily, I can keep what we do under pretty close control. It's mainly the same old Marley pot year after year. Decade after decade! That's pretty much the biggest I'll go and serves as a basis for discussion for any other show's use of it.

Merry Christmas.