Quality DMX Cable? (and Pin Connectors)
- Thread startergafftaper
- Start date
Hello, there my name is Barbara and I work for a company called Coast Wire and Plastic, Technology located in Carosn, CA. We have been providing entertainment and stage lighting cables for over 50 years. We have two lines of DMX cables...CoastPro (a chinese version at very great prices) or our Coastflex line which is custom built and both use the Neutrik line of connector. I could send you some information or if you would like to contact me @ 800-514-9473, I would be more than happy to help you.
Any number of DMX cable companies out there, and if sufficient quality in cable type and wiring standards what is wrong with something made in China other than if on short lead time to fulfill the order?
Mostly for a DMX cable almost standard to the industry from national sound company also making cable (hey we make the same stuff...) to local lighting company that can make it for you, to national Company from TMB to Star and lots of others including Rosco and High End, there is endless options for any type of and especially DMX grade cable.
Get your company name, logo, phone number, cable color for length and even a E-tape ring of tape on the cable under clear heat shrink designating what you want for free. Place a large enough order and give time for them to make it and all is normally good.
On stage pin or Edison or other cable - same story in any supplier quoting out your cable should be willing without price increase to pre-mark your cable for you as to your needs. A few things of note about cable on the other hand is the crimp verses ferrule based stage pin plugs. A crimp plug is one time use. Someone the jobsite finds need as I have indeed in the past to make a 50' stage to Edison jumper, and you now have a stage pin plug if crimped that’s totally useless for future use other than as spare parts for the plastic. Should not be extra charge for your cable in build to specify ferrule type non-crimp type screw terminal based stage pin plugs or consider that no’ go as part of the bid in not doing so. Otherwise once used, that plug is for all intensive purposes useless. This unless say saving the pins for say two wire stringers where you could replace the useless otherwise crimp pin for that of a ground pin. Same problem with lighting fixtures, if not specified you might get one time use only crimp pin plugs for them and shouldn’t be an extra charge for normal screw termial plugs if paying to have them installed.
Edison plugs or twist lock, no crimp available but with stage pin one should as with DMX cable get a free sample so as to play test and judge for your standards. Gotten quite a few free samples over the years of cable and at times as “sample of their work” some gear that isn’t up to standard. Be it an Edison plug that if 12/3 SJ cable is with strain relief is tightened all the way down thus forcing the rubber insulators out of the way and allowing as little as 1/32" of insulation between conductors at the place such conductors at the plug move most to DMX cable as sample that was spotty workmanship on a free sample of what work they could do for us. Especially common is improper strain reliefs on DMX cable or over tightened Edison cables. This much less, sure we can do cheap thermoplastic SJEOW or some form of SEWO cable for you cheaper and the cable is cheaper, but if it touches a light fixture by accident it’s now useless in having melted thru and shorted to the fixture. Lots of details in a bidding process.
I note a preference of crimp type ring terminal type stage pin plugs to ferrule type plugs. Yes I can see this assuming the proper ring terminal and lock washer for them as long as not Leviton that’s too short in body of the plug to properly use it. The old Union plugs lasted forever and a day in that concept if done properly even with friction tape to build up the cable type, and assuming you have the Stakon type proper crimp tool cut away on its front jaw so it would do it.
I don’t miss Union plugs, Rosco or other types of plug in ring terminals types. Even had the Leviton rep. walk away with his new plug taking a Bates plug with him in seeing how much better it was. For the Leviton... lack of strain relief and ability to crimp say a 16ga wire and in general room enough to get cable to where it needs to get.
On other brands of ring terminal plug to be fair, there is more ring and often strain relief options for the cable type used. And if you double up the strip length of the wire within a terminal than fold it back on itself it will normally in being about 13ga if starting out to be about 16ga, sufficiently fit within a 12ga ring terminal. Assuming the user has done this - otherwise its much like with assuming the proper Stakon displacing instead of crushing of the material as if you were taking a Vise grip to it... just kind of smashing the ring terminal and hoping for the best.
Same problems if not even worse or more likely the same in using a 12ga ferrule offered in a ferrule Bates like plug with a 16ga fixture wire if not the same or worse in that set screw just cutting thru the ferrule and cutting thru conductors and making for a ferrule that you cannot remove. I don’t use the single 12ga ferrule with 16ga wire fixtures, I buy hundreds of insulated 16ga insulated ferrules per year for stage pin plug use than sleeve the 12ga ferrule over them if not even install a 14ga ferrule sleeve between both at times. This double or tripple layer of ferrule than both with main 12ga ferrule centers the ferrule on the screw terminal hole, and with the 16ga wire under it provides an added level of metal between turning screw so as to prevent cutting thru and also locates and better supports the 16ga ferrule within the terminal. This or if without a 16ga insulated terminal I have them fold back on itself the wire for the 12ga terminal the same as with a crimp terminal. Same thing except with a Bates style ferrule type stage pin plug, you don’t need to own or have on site a proper crimp tool and its more a question of proper tenstion on a screw than proper tension on a ring termianl than also screw.
Hard to get people properly trained enough for screw tension, almost impossible to train people to properly crimp a ring terminal - assuming they even have the proper tools especially on the jobsite to do so.
This my argument as other than the Bates style ferrule type stage pin plug. On other types of plug... most all major plug manufacturers provide both instructions with each plug and even cast into the back of the plug strip length templates. Assuming even the most professional of tech people might at some point during their years of experience read or see such a thing it’s not surprising at at any point to see like 1/4" worth of sripped wire and all the conductor shoved into the plug - clamp now clamping down on the insulation of the conductor and strain relief for the plug clamping down onto outer jacket striped cables. This much less in those making adaptors “professionally” in taking the stage pin plug off, inserting the wire ferrule and all into the clamp of the plug and tensioning the strain relief onto the outer jacket lacking cable. Thanks for the help but I would prefer less damage in ferrules now stuck inside the plug and or at very least properly wired cable.
Anyway overall concept, if stage hands in the field cannot wire a plug safely or properly... them paid much less as non-pro had at best in sample of their work be inspected. Should you see such a sample of bad work be it DMX or Edison or what ever... would cross them off the quote.... years later they contacted someone else to get us to buy cable from them... yeat it all goes thru me and here is the problems with their cable...
Save your records by the way in why you chose one over another by the way, comes in useful later.
Ibid, the properly terminated ferrule for what gauge of wire it’s used for.
Clamps... Something interesting came up today. Been buying the Kupo CL-17 Eye Ring coupler for about a year now. Like at least $20.00 each less and in constantly needing more so as to rig the next LED wall flavor... it was a great choice. In the past I have been using a Doughty #T57000 clamp with side lock nut an shoulder eyebolt. Very expensive to use and it’s assuming our guys assembled such a thing correctly as opposed to having cut corners.
Something installed at the factory and as not modified as factory rated verses a clamp used in the past with shoulder eyebolt in assuming proper supervision of assembly of. No question that I bought hundreds of factory installed eye bolt clamps over the past year in both cheaper, load rated and given it’s factory installed and out of supervision for how its made I no longer have liabilabilty for it.
Gosh Da@& them especially freelance crew chief people in taking it upon themselves, (our trained guys will no doubt have asked first - assuming proper training) that figured out of their own huge knowledge in knowing what the heck they were doing in not asking permission, them who started to remove the set screws from such fixed eyebolt couplers so as to swivel. Gee, thanks for now totaly screwing the factory specification of these clamps for us in any potential liability the Master Rigger and I debated out very heavily in citing this problem with the clamps in buying that someone might undoo but in cost effectiveness and liability we found this clamp to be the best option in both cost effectiveness and liability.
Few hundred of these clamps now in stock - no matter where made they were load rated but some people made it at random at this point what in show comes back in tossing clamps back into the bin as to what’s still factory specification and what is now potentially unsafe. Even if I lock up such things, in need or end user it would no longer assure proper after usage. Back again to the game with the Doughty clamps with eyebolts on them in assuming those installing eyebolts on them were competent to install them proper in the proper hardware we were trying to get away from in idiot proofing the system for safety in overall goal. Gee, was that sidelock nut even a sidelock nut, was it gripping properly, was the eyebolt now in not thinking about such a concept now damaging the truss in sticking out a wee bit too far? Lots of common problems in production both of us were trying in this new type of pre-assembled clamp were trying to solve.
The KCP-833 swivel eye ring coupler seems to solve as concept much of the above problems in being swivel coupler not before now an option.
So as of today was brought up today in noting of the SWL of this clamp by the Head of Hoist Dpt. or for all intensive purposes head rigger at the shop, the clamp says 500KG but the eyebolt itself rates itself at 440 Lbs. Website rates this clamp type with eye ring both swivel and fixed for 500Kgs / 1,100Lbs, yet the eye ring itself is only 440# SWL rated. It’s Kupo/China and perhaps liability wise there might have been a misunderstanding - this much less what is the class of
“SWL” load rating in comparison to tested breaking strength in such gear in SWL is at times differernt for different industries. Is it 8:1, 5:1 or 2:1 this rating for it in all being different for
SWL rating. Kind of disappointed my Moonlight rep. in the US sales rep. for Kupo didn’t instantly reply today. If no a day in response time by them I would think it bad.
Still though overall, this is as product a separate question from China country product verses brand name. There in stamped on the clamp is not a doubt that the 500KG half cheseborough clamp on such a thing would be as rated. This is more or less a more detailed thing about the clamp than the assembly as perhaps ovelooked in specification for it as published for its rating as a mistake.
China type of thing in quality of product pre-assembled verses say Euro type product for clamp which would do an eyebolt below it for at least twice the price and domestic Eyebolt we bought separate which would now have to be assembled in the shop? This assuming I couldn’t assure someone was not removing set screws from the pre-built eyebolt assemblies we bought to factory specification, how would we assume some to assemble something domestic in Eyebolt with Euro clamp that could work with it would be assembled with it any more safely?
At this point for me at least it don’t matter where it’s made, more a question of you doing what you also need to in being the master of your space and accepting bought when it’s not your’s in doing so only to your specification for quality (assuming you have such a standard to base it off of.) Domestic or foreign made don’t matter even which continent or time zone made from for that standpoint. Even on these Kupo Eyebolt clamps, and I’m up for the swivel versions of them in being cost effective and solving the problem.. If now properly rated for like 400# this is fine and safe as long as now properly rated for it. Want to see the testing for it of course but in doing so where its’ made I do not have any more Ill thoughts from this China company than a domestic one or a contintntial one. All bad until I see the product.
Mostly for a DMX cable almost standard to the industry from national sound company also making cable (hey we make the same stuff...) to local lighting company that can make it for you, to national Company from TMB to Star and lots of others including Rosco and High End, there is endless options for any type of and especially DMX grade cable.
Get your company name, logo, phone number, cable color for length and even a E-tape ring of tape on the cable under clear heat shrink designating what you want for free. Place a large enough order and give time for them to make it and all is normally good.
On stage pin or Edison or other cable - same story in any supplier quoting out your cable should be willing without price increase to pre-mark your cable for you as to your needs. A few things of note about cable on the other hand is the crimp verses ferrule based stage pin plugs. A crimp plug is one time use. Someone the jobsite finds need as I have indeed in the past to make a 50' stage to Edison jumper, and you now have a stage pin plug if crimped that’s totally useless for future use other than as spare parts for the plastic. Should not be extra charge for your cable in build to specify ferrule type non-crimp type screw terminal based stage pin plugs or consider that no’ go as part of the bid in not doing so. Otherwise once used, that plug is for all intensive purposes useless. This unless say saving the pins for say two wire stringers where you could replace the useless otherwise crimp pin for that of a ground pin. Same problem with lighting fixtures, if not specified you might get one time use only crimp pin plugs for them and shouldn’t be an extra charge for normal screw termial plugs if paying to have them installed.
Edison plugs or twist lock, no crimp available but with stage pin one should as with DMX cable get a free sample so as to play test and judge for your standards. Gotten quite a few free samples over the years of cable and at times as “sample of their work” some gear that isn’t up to standard. Be it an Edison plug that if 12/3 SJ cable is with strain relief is tightened all the way down thus forcing the rubber insulators out of the way and allowing as little as 1/32" of insulation between conductors at the place such conductors at the plug move most to DMX cable as sample that was spotty workmanship on a free sample of what work they could do for us. Especially common is improper strain reliefs on DMX cable or over tightened Edison cables. This much less, sure we can do cheap thermoplastic SJEOW or some form of SEWO cable for you cheaper and the cable is cheaper, but if it touches a light fixture by accident it’s now useless in having melted thru and shorted to the fixture. Lots of details in a bidding process.
I note a preference of crimp type ring terminal type stage pin plugs to ferrule type plugs. Yes I can see this assuming the proper ring terminal and lock washer for them as long as not Leviton that’s too short in body of the plug to properly use it. The old Union plugs lasted forever and a day in that concept if done properly even with friction tape to build up the cable type, and assuming you have the Stakon type proper crimp tool cut away on its front jaw so it would do it.
I don’t miss Union plugs, Rosco or other types of plug in ring terminals types. Even had the Leviton rep. walk away with his new plug taking a Bates plug with him in seeing how much better it was. For the Leviton... lack of strain relief and ability to crimp say a 16ga wire and in general room enough to get cable to where it needs to get.
On other brands of ring terminal plug to be fair, there is more ring and often strain relief options for the cable type used. And if you double up the strip length of the wire within a terminal than fold it back on itself it will normally in being about 13ga if starting out to be about 16ga, sufficiently fit within a 12ga ring terminal. Assuming the user has done this - otherwise its much like with assuming the proper Stakon displacing instead of crushing of the material as if you were taking a Vise grip to it... just kind of smashing the ring terminal and hoping for the best.
Same problems if not even worse or more likely the same in using a 12ga ferrule offered in a ferrule Bates like plug with a 16ga fixture wire if not the same or worse in that set screw just cutting thru the ferrule and cutting thru conductors and making for a ferrule that you cannot remove. I don’t use the single 12ga ferrule with 16ga wire fixtures, I buy hundreds of insulated 16ga insulated ferrules per year for stage pin plug use than sleeve the 12ga ferrule over them if not even install a 14ga ferrule sleeve between both at times. This double or tripple layer of ferrule than both with main 12ga ferrule centers the ferrule on the screw terminal hole, and with the 16ga wire under it provides an added level of metal between turning screw so as to prevent cutting thru and also locates and better supports the 16ga ferrule within the terminal. This or if without a 16ga insulated terminal I have them fold back on itself the wire for the 12ga terminal the same as with a crimp terminal. Same thing except with a Bates style ferrule type stage pin plug, you don’t need to own or have on site a proper crimp tool and its more a question of proper tenstion on a screw than proper tension on a ring termianl than also screw.
Hard to get people properly trained enough for screw tension, almost impossible to train people to properly crimp a ring terminal - assuming they even have the proper tools especially on the jobsite to do so.
This my argument as other than the Bates style ferrule type stage pin plug. On other types of plug... most all major plug manufacturers provide both instructions with each plug and even cast into the back of the plug strip length templates. Assuming even the most professional of tech people might at some point during their years of experience read or see such a thing it’s not surprising at at any point to see like 1/4" worth of sripped wire and all the conductor shoved into the plug - clamp now clamping down on the insulation of the conductor and strain relief for the plug clamping down onto outer jacket striped cables. This much less in those making adaptors “professionally” in taking the stage pin plug off, inserting the wire ferrule and all into the clamp of the plug and tensioning the strain relief onto the outer jacket lacking cable. Thanks for the help but I would prefer less damage in ferrules now stuck inside the plug and or at very least properly wired cable.
Anyway overall concept, if stage hands in the field cannot wire a plug safely or properly... them paid much less as non-pro had at best in sample of their work be inspected. Should you see such a sample of bad work be it DMX or Edison or what ever... would cross them off the quote.... years later they contacted someone else to get us to buy cable from them... yeat it all goes thru me and here is the problems with their cable...
Save your records by the way in why you chose one over another by the way, comes in useful later.
Ibid, the properly terminated ferrule for what gauge of wire it’s used for.
Clamps... Something interesting came up today. Been buying the Kupo CL-17 Eye Ring coupler for about a year now. Like at least $20.00 each less and in constantly needing more so as to rig the next LED wall flavor... it was a great choice. In the past I have been using a Doughty #T57000 clamp with side lock nut an shoulder eyebolt. Very expensive to use and it’s assuming our guys assembled such a thing correctly as opposed to having cut corners.
Something installed at the factory and as not modified as factory rated verses a clamp used in the past with shoulder eyebolt in assuming proper supervision of assembly of. No question that I bought hundreds of factory installed eye bolt clamps over the past year in both cheaper, load rated and given it’s factory installed and out of supervision for how its made I no longer have liabilabilty for it.
Gosh Da@& them especially freelance crew chief people in taking it upon themselves, (our trained guys will no doubt have asked first - assuming proper training) that figured out of their own huge knowledge in knowing what the heck they were doing in not asking permission, them who started to remove the set screws from such fixed eyebolt couplers so as to swivel. Gee, thanks for now totaly screwing the factory specification of these clamps for us in any potential liability the Master Rigger and I debated out very heavily in citing this problem with the clamps in buying that someone might undoo but in cost effectiveness and liability we found this clamp to be the best option in both cost effectiveness and liability.
Few hundred of these clamps now in stock - no matter where made they were load rated but some people made it at random at this point what in show comes back in tossing clamps back into the bin as to what’s still factory specification and what is now potentially unsafe. Even if I lock up such things, in need or end user it would no longer assure proper after usage. Back again to the game with the Doughty clamps with eyebolts on them in assuming those installing eyebolts on them were competent to install them proper in the proper hardware we were trying to get away from in idiot proofing the system for safety in overall goal. Gee, was that sidelock nut even a sidelock nut, was it gripping properly, was the eyebolt now in not thinking about such a concept now damaging the truss in sticking out a wee bit too far? Lots of common problems in production both of us were trying in this new type of pre-assembled clamp were trying to solve.
The KCP-833 swivel eye ring coupler seems to solve as concept much of the above problems in being swivel coupler not before now an option.
So as of today was brought up today in noting of the SWL of this clamp by the Head of Hoist Dpt. or for all intensive purposes head rigger at the shop, the clamp says 500KG but the eyebolt itself rates itself at 440 Lbs. Website rates this clamp type with eye ring both swivel and fixed for 500Kgs / 1,100Lbs, yet the eye ring itself is only 440# SWL rated. It’s Kupo/China and perhaps liability wise there might have been a misunderstanding - this much less what is the class of
“SWL” load rating in comparison to tested breaking strength in such gear in SWL is at times differernt for different industries. Is it 8:1, 5:1 or 2:1 this rating for it in all being different for
SWL rating. Kind of disappointed my Moonlight rep. in the US sales rep. for Kupo didn’t instantly reply today. If no a day in response time by them I would think it bad.
Still though overall, this is as product a separate question from China country product verses brand name. There in stamped on the clamp is not a doubt that the 500KG half cheseborough clamp on such a thing would be as rated. This is more or less a more detailed thing about the clamp than the assembly as perhaps ovelooked in specification for it as published for its rating as a mistake.
China type of thing in quality of product pre-assembled verses say Euro type product for clamp which would do an eyebolt below it for at least twice the price and domestic Eyebolt we bought separate which would now have to be assembled in the shop? This assuming I couldn’t assure someone was not removing set screws from the pre-built eyebolt assemblies we bought to factory specification, how would we assume some to assemble something domestic in Eyebolt with Euro clamp that could work with it would be assembled with it any more safely?
At this point for me at least it don’t matter where it’s made, more a question of you doing what you also need to in being the master of your space and accepting bought when it’s not your’s in doing so only to your specification for quality (assuming you have such a standard to base it off of.) Domestic or foreign made don’t matter even which continent or time zone made from for that standpoint. Even on these Kupo Eyebolt clamps, and I’m up for the swivel versions of them in being cost effective and solving the problem.. If now properly rated for like 400# this is fine and safe as long as now properly rated for it. Want to see the testing for it of course but in doing so where its’ made I do not have any more Ill thoughts from this China company than a domestic one or a contintntial one. All bad until I see the product.
For clamps or cable, at what point is a domestic company domestic? Having made the cable say in the US but having made the clamp elsewhere, or a company having made much of it elsewhere now in the US?
Any quality differences? In assuming a company you shop from, it is their quality control and standards no matter where it is made. Given this, it is is now a question of the name brand no matter where that company originates from or where their product is made.
In other words, from China or was that Japan in years later China now having the stigma Japan had years ago for quality in question. Yea, a building process but watch out as it’s a gearing up possess also so as to duplicate the Sony Walkman revolution. First Mac 2K lamps (Mac 2K/Martin another foreign brand) I remember were Koto out of Japan. GE bought them out.
PEC as a brand verses GE... Feit verses Philips... that’s stuff I can speak about. Kupo verses James Thomas Engineering or TMB, not as much other than it’s all in question. All the gear in use dependant upon application, design and price for what it is by others. Where it is from isn’t as much a problem as quality. Where I work took a big chance on some foreign brand by the way of “Martin” years ago when they were first coming out. Wasn’t High End or rented from Veri-lite as you couldn’t own their gear back than. Don’t see a difference or are the oriental types less advanced than the Euro types as more advanced or quality at some point? This given a name brand stamped on the product as opposed to just “China” for rigging.
Quality and inspection of what you get is an obvious thing, but where it's made is less an issue for me these days.
bishopthomas
Well-Known Member
Glad to know others feel that way. Saying a blanket statement like, "I won't buy anything from China" is just plain ignorance and xenophobia.
shiben
Well-Known Member
Plus, many items known for quality are made in China, its more of a "Chinese variant" or a respected company producing it where the labor is cheap. Quite frankly, there are plenty of American products that have terrible quality themselves. Also, "Made in the USA" stickers only require that you make some part of the product in the US, and I know a lot of things the only part of the assembly done is putting the Made in the USA sticker on... although that may have toughened since that broke as the case...
Similar threads
Control/Dimming
5-wire cable with 3 pin XLR
