question on which receptacle to use for 60A disconnect

[blalew]

In our church we have a technical power sub panel that provides circuits for stage floorboxes, FoH equipment & PA. It has a 60A 3 phase feed from the main panels.

The sub panel has an outlet on the side for use as what I would call a bypass or disconnect?

My question is - what would be a standard receptacle to use on this 60 amp 3 phase 5 wire circuit?

The reason we're replacing it is that it has a four wire receptacle. Our electrician has OK'd its replacement but says there are multiple different receptacles that could be used to replace it, I'm looking for the one that's most likely going to be on the end of a distro for entertainment power.

I'm thinking it might be helpful to have a plug to camlock tails adapter also, but this is the first time we've used this receptacle, so not sure it's worth the $$.

Thanks all,
-Blanton

 

[derekleffew]

Hubbell HBL560R9W

or other similar pin and sleeve connector or "expo plug".

Will this be powering a small portable distro, such as

Nutech CV-60-EXPO-1

...I'm thinking it might be helpful to have a plug to cam-lok tails adapter also, but this is the first time we've used this receptacle, so not sure it's worth the $$. ...

Helpful perhaps, but problematic also. The only code-compliant way to do it is a box with a male 60A pin and sleeve and female (G&N rev optional) panel-mount cam-loks.

 

[blalew]

Thanks for your answer.

I'm seeing now why it was four wire - possibly bc neutral is unneeded in this situation? Regardless, it was wired incorrectly, so I'm glad we're fixing it! (one thing wrong in this panel was ground wires for the floorboxes were tied to the neutral bus, causing potential safety issues as well as #$!^@% noise.)

Called my local electrical supply - they say locally, twistlock is much more common than pin & sleeve, but I got the impression that if I do need five wires, pin & sleeve is the way to go.

So my secondary question - would a "typical" 60A disconnect feeding a guest's distro provide four or five wires?

Thanks,
-Blanton

 

[derekleffew]

...I'm seeing now why it was four wire - possibly bc neutral is unneeded in this situation? ...

No. More likely it was wired to use only two of the three hot legs--the new term is bi-phase. The only time the neutral is unneeded is when powering 3Ø motors or automation.

...So my secondary question - would a "typical" 60A disconnect feeding a guest's distro provide four or five wires? ...

What do you see this service as being used for? I'll jump to some rash conclusions here, since it's a church venue (60A is too small for touring lighting, unlikely groups will be bringing in chain hoist s), so small touring sound systems? There really is no standard--every "weekend warrior" audio company uses a different connector. Many bars and clubs have installed some type of range plug receptacle, in any number of different configurations from 30A-50A. It's easily available at a home center, but I prefer a locking connector, and using one that isn't as available helps to keep the amateurs safe.

You many be able to do a survey of prospective clients/users to see what they want/expect, but my best advice is to install the 560R9W receptacle AND have an empty 560P9W plug, that [-]you[/-] a Qualified Person, per the NEC can temporarily install on the tails of whatever they bring.

I feel a restatement of our Safety Policy is in order: Electricity can cause serious injury or death. When in doubt, always consult a qualified professional, in person.

 

[blalew]

It was wired as biphase (two hots only), but the "neutral" was a bare 12ga wire. Neutral going into the sub panel was properly sized according to our electrician. Ground was provided via the fact that the receptacle box was installed on the side of the sub panel.

If there's no 'standard' per se, I may just go with a receptacle/plug set that's locally available and the plug can be wired up by my electrician at the time of tie-in. We'll stick with the 5 wire, 3 phase, 60A though.

Thanks for all the advice. I don't take the warning lightly, either.

-Blanton

 

[blalew]

Just to follow up -

I talked to our electrician. He confirmed the details (sizing of conductors to subpanel, etc) since the subpanel had issues prior to this, and he installed a 60A breaker to feed a separate disconnect/shutoff box that has lugs.

Bottom line - tie-in should be easier since we're using lugs not wiring a plug, and I like a separate breaker & switch for the feed.

 

[derekleffew]

...Bottom line - tie-in should be easier since we're using lugs not wiring a plug, ...

Well I might argue that point: working near live power, bushings/strain-relief often over-looked, etc.
Suggestion: try to fit over-sized lugs, ideally to accept #6-#2/0 (if such a lug exists?), to avoid issues raised in http://www.controlbooth.com/forums/lighting-electrics/25866-trimming-down-feeder-wire-strands.html .

 

[blalew]

Fair enough, I had considered that. Of course, wiring the pin/sleeve plug probably has the same issues.

I will work on getting oversize lugs...

EDIT:
the 'working near live power' should be mitigated by the fact that the disconnect (a separate box) is fed by a breaker in the sub panel, I would think?

 

[blalew]

Event went well, no circuits blown. To put their tails in the disconnect they pulled back strands & taped off (I was afraid of that).

SO I'm considering adding a camlok bulkhead (5 wire) fed by the disconnect switch. We don't do this much so it's probably not worth the material cost but where would I find such a thing?

Thanks,
-Blanton

 

[Footer]

Event went well, no circuits blown. To put their tails in the disconnect they pulled back strands & taped off (I was afraid of that).

SO I'm considering adding a camlok bulkhead (5 wire) fed by the disconnect switch. We don't do this much so it's probably not worth the material cost but where would I find such a thing?

Thanks,
-Blanton

Give SSRC a call. They will try to sell you a box that has a breaker, locking panel, and a bunch of other stuff you don't need. Instead, all you need is the cams in a box with a bit of copper. They will do it, but you will have to ask for it.

 

[BanditRO]

In our church we have a technical power sub panel that provides circuits for stage floorboxes, FoH equipment & PA. It has a 60A 3 phase feed from the main panels.

The sub panel has an outlet on the side for use as what I would call a bypass or disconnect?

My question is - what would be a standard receptacle to use on this 60 amp 3 phase 5 wire circuit?

The reason we're replacing it is that it has a four wire receptacle. Our electrician has OK'd its replacement but says there are multiple different receptacles that could be used to replace it, I'm looking for the one that's most likely going to be on the end of a distro for entertainment power.

I'm thinking it might be helpful to have a plug to camlock tails adapter also, but this is the first time we've used this receptacle, so not sure it's worth the $$.

Thanks all,
-Blanton

You may also want to contact LEX Products and see if they have anything that might facilitate your endeavours!! SSRC is a great company and more than capable; however, LEX provides disconnect products in many varieties in heir rubber boxes...

Just a thought

 

[derekleffew]

...S I'm considering adding a camlok bulkhead (5 wire) fed by the disconnect switch. We don't do this much so it's probably not worth the material cost but where would I find such a thing? ...

Any (non-stage) electrician worth his salt should know where to obtain an appropriately-sized box, and have the tools necessary to punch the mounting holes. Panel-mount E1016 -compatibles are available from a number of sources, including CL 400A/600V Female Brass Panel Mount DSS - all colors | Marinco . Alternatively, there's Camlock Panel Assemblies offered by DimmerRack, Unique items for the Audio and Lighting Professional , but I'm slightly concerned by their phrase "Camlock [sic, Cam-Lok] Hardware Is Not Included.", as that's the most expensive part.