The above Ad will no longer appear after you Sign Up for Free!

Raising and Lowering Sharkstooth Gauze without Fly Space?

Discussion in 'Scenery, Props, and Rigging' started by Alex Williams, Nov 22, 2016.

  1. Alex Williams

    Alex Williams New Member

    Messages:
    1
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    England
    Hi I'm technical manager for a production in a small local theatre and we have a shark tooth gauze we intend to have at the front front of the stage fixed to the front of the lighting grid above the stage. We need to use this gauze during the show for projection and effect but for other scenes we need to 'fly it out'.

    However we have no flying space with being a small theatre apart from about a metre in height where the grid is located. What are my options for raising and lowering this curtain? I've heard of roll drop systems but these are supposedly not meant to be used with stretching materials such as sharks tooth gauze?

    Any help appreciated.
     
  2. len

    len Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,709
    Likes Received:
    204
    Location:
    Chicagoland
    Can you do an Austrian pull (not sure about the terminology) where a pull rope is attached to the bottom and sewn into grommets or something throughout? Sorry this isn't the clearest description. upload_2016-11-22_12-36-41.jpeg
     
  3. Van

    Van CBMod CB Mods Premium Member

    Messages:
    5,507
    Likes Received:
    814
    Occupation:
    Project Manager, Stagecraft Industries, Inc.
    Location:
    Portland, Or.
    Alex, Just to make sure we're all on the same page, when you say 'Gauze' and Projection, I think Scrim. You later refer to Sharkstooth so I'm completely assuming Scrim, as opposed to Scenic Gauze.
    there is no reason you cannot make a roll drop out of scrim, especially given the height of your grid. The wider and taller a scrim is the more of a chance you have of sag creeping into the middle of the roll this can lead to the scrim catching itself and putting a crease into the fabric. If your scrim IS really wide you can compensate for the sag by unevenly attaching it to the roll batten, but I don't recommend this; I assume you are using this scrim as opposed to just buying muslin and building a roll drop screen because you have it and it has 0 cost.
    Let me know if this helps.
     
  4. BillConnerFASTC

    BillConnerFASTC Well-Known Member Premium Member

    Messages:
    3,565
    Likes Received:
    957
    Occupation:
    Theatre Consultant
    Location:
    Oak Park, IL (708)983-5792
    If only used at top of show, would you consider dropping it and hustling it off stage as a bit of business? Lots of ways to make that happen.
     
  5. gafftaper

    gafftaper Senior Team Senior Team Fight Leukemia

    Messages:
    12,178
    Likes Received:
    2,207
    Occupation:
    Theater Manager & T.D.
    Location:
    Seattle, Washington
    The Austrian style drop O think will be too wrinkly to project on and get a good scrim effect.

    A Roll Drop or Olio (Oleo sp?) is a great solution as long as the stage isn't too wide. Here's an old post of mine that has a diagram of how a Roll Drop is built. The problem is the width of the stage. If it's much more than 20 feet - 25 feet, the roll will sag and it will become dangerously heavy.

    I like Bill's idea of taking the drop down instead most of all. You could hang it as a Kabuki Drop and the scrim would be off stage in seconds.
     
    Van likes this.
  6. Van

    Van CBMod CB Mods Premium Member

    Messages:
    5,507
    Likes Received:
    814
    Occupation:
    Project Manager, Stagecraft Industries, Inc.
    Location:
    Portland, Or.
    I completely agree. Rigging either an Austrian or a Waterfall, which is what is shown in the picture, both entail connecting rings or lift line guides to the upstage side of the curtain to achieve the piled-on effect. these would create puckers in the material as well as being places that would turn Opaque and no longer work as a scrim.

    Both spellings are correct and have separate meanings.
    In the Theatrical sense the term is Olio meaning: A loose mixture or variety. Vaudeville was mostly an collection of "Olio Acts" not over-all message, just interesting things strung together. The Olio Curtain inherited its name from the fact that it was used between these various acts as a quick means to change the scenery.
    Oleo is a chemistry term used to denote Oils and most commonly a mixture of oils. Margarine , illegal in Wisconsin for an extremely long time,often referred to as Oleo is simply a "mixture" of hydrogenated and partially hydrogenated oils whipped together and extruded or cast. < original Stick oleo came with little packets to color it yellow like real butter because it was naturally white like the fat it is>

    Mr. Wizard is going back to work now....
     
    JohnnyAmos likes this.
  7. JChenault

    JChenault Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,346
    Likes Received:
    275
    Location:
    seattle, wa USA
    Instead of up and down have you considered side to side? Scrims can work pretty well on traveler tracks.
     
    RickR likes this.
  8. rsmentele

    rsmentele Active Member Premium Member Fight Leukemia

    Messages:
    477
    Likes Received:
    83
    Location:
    Madison, WI
    I second a traveler track
     
  9. egilson1

    egilson1 Well-Known Member Premium Member

    Messages:
    331
    Likes Received:
    188
    Occupation:
    Rigging specialist
    Location:
    Boston, MA
    Third for the traveler track.
     
  10. len

    len Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,709
    Likes Received:
    204
    Location:
    Chicagoland
    The austrian doesn't have to be as full as shown, and most of that will disappear when things are projected onto it, especially front projection. Traveller is better, but may not be as cost effective.
     
  11. BillConnerFASTC

    BillConnerFASTC Well-Known Member Premium Member

    Messages:
    3,565
    Likes Received:
    957
    Occupation:
    Theatre Consultant
    Location:
    Oak Park, IL (708)983-5792
    I would also recommend traveller if there is a wing or space to stack it, but sensed this was a more open stage without wings.
     
  12. DRU

    DRU Member

    Messages:
    83
    Likes Received:
    18
    Occupation:
    Technical Director
    Location:
    Soutwestern Ohio
    As someone who has put a scrim on an Olio-style drop, I strongly recommend against it. When the Olio drop goes up, the drop takes most of the weight of the bottom roll tube, not so much the ropes. I hung a scrim on an Olio, ran the show for three weekends and a tech week, and the scrim tore heavily along the top where the jute webbing met the scrim. Ruined my scrim, and I never did it again.

    If you put a bottom pipe in a scrim and lift it in some way (fly system or roll drop), it tends stretch and make an hourglass shape, which can be annoying to fix.

    @Alex Williams: how many times does this scrim have to go in/out during the show?
     
  13. ruinexplorer

    ruinexplorer Minion CB Mods Premium Member Fight Leukemia

    Messages:
    4,076
    Likes Received:
    596
    Occupation:
    Projectionist
    Location:
    Las Vegas
    I would not encourage a Kabuki drop for the scrim unless it drops into some sort of protective cloth. It could easily snag on the slightest imperfection on the floor. I use cheesecloth on a push broom before I have dancers on the stage. Since it snags so easily, every imperfection will be easy to find. I would also recommend a traveller track if possible.
     
    lwinters630 likes this.
  14. MikeJ

    MikeJ Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    719
    Likes Received:
    118
    Location:
    Here and There
    https://www.thelightsource.com/products/m-140-cyc-track-3

    M140 track is light and pretty cheap. If you have legs in your space, you probably have room to slide the scrim off and just behind one.
    I think the track comes in 20' sections. There is a punch tool if you need to connect them. You could probably just ask if the could pre punch each end of 2 or 3 pieces. That way all you would need is a hack/ban/recip saw and you could put together whatever length you need.

    They do not have all the pulleys for this track, so if you want to make a single operating line you would have to look around, maybe Drape Kings.
     
  15. kicknargel

    kicknargel Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,110
    Likes Received:
    225
    Location:
    Denver, CO
    I agree that a traveler is best if possible. If not, I worked in the theatre that used scrims (gauze in UK parlance) as Austrians all the time. They clipped D-rings directly to the goods through the weave (I wish I knew the specific hardware, maybe a hog ring) and ran ropes down through them to a bottom pipe. Sure, you can see the rings and ropes when seeing through the scrim, but there wasn't much trouble with puckering when front lit. It will do a bit of damage to the goods over time.
     

Share This Page