Re-opening Procedure after Covid-19

StradivariusBone

Custom Title
Fight Leukemia
Joined
Aug 23, 2013
Location
Space Coast, FL
Even then it's going to be a seachange in cultural attitudes. Walking through the grocery store the other day I had to laugh at the fellow wearing the bright yellow "Don't Tread on Me" shirt without a mask going the wrong way down the aisle.

Tread on others as you would like to be tread upon seems more apt and more useful. I have no doubt that no amount of spike tape will prevent my patrons from sitting wherever the hell they want.
 

Hansentd

Member
Joined
May 31, 2015
Location
Metro Boston
The problem of distancing will be most -well- problematic in getting in and out.
Even if you only sell 1 of every 4 seats in a row- does that allow the person in the middle to get out without climbing over the rest of the row? Most aisles aren't even 6ft wide. And how many people is the lobby going to be able to hold?
Not to be totally doom and gloom- audiences are also going to need to get used to a new way of doing things. Timed entry is something I'm seeing a lot of people talk about- where people wait outside (probably in their cars) until it's their section/row's turn to seat. How this works with late seating or people going to the bathroom is a yet-other-level of complexity.

I think this is a great discussion BTW- I'm not trying to say we're never going to have a show until we have a vaccine.
We're not going to get some kind of perfect plan gifted to us from on high. People are going to have to be cautious and use best judgement.
And when there is an event that spreads a bunch of new infections- the people putting on that event are going to have to explain what they were thinking.
 

Calc

Active Member
Joined
Jan 26, 2004
Location
Mid-Michigan
I have no doubt that no amount of spike tape will prevent my patrons from sitting wherever the hell they want.
We already fought with this for our (usual) commencements. We park a couple projectors on a mezzanine at the top of bleacher seating, and tape off seats two rows in front to prevent people from blocking the projector and getting odd tans on the top of their heads. Tape won't work. Signs don't help. If they want to sit there, they'll do it. Our current setup is to ratchet strap AV carts into the seats, and cover the whole thing with a couple taped-down tablecloths to hide it's workings. Marginally works, but they still try to scoot it to the side and sit next to it.
I can't imagine how this all is possibly going to work without a mass change-of-attitude from the patrons.
I'd also note that this WAS thought of in the ESA plan mentioned above. They mention the social aspect of getting people on your side, and start to outline how to 'sell' safety to the crowd.
 

FMEng

Well-Known Member
Fight Leukemia
Joined
Mar 31, 2008
Location
Tacoma, WA
Governor's orders don't apply to Native American tribes. A huge, tribal casino opened north of Seattle today, and the news showed a line of cars way down the road. To the tribe's credit, it looked like they were taking precautions of increasing spacing and limiting the number of people allowed in. No mention of masks being required or taking contact tracing info. Only time will tell if it works. Apparently, there are plenty of people willing to risk their health, and the health of their community, for some entertainment.
 

Craig Hauber

Member
Joined
Nov 6, 2016
Location
Plentywood MT, Grenora ND
Personally, I think all this is a nice discussion... but just like all the restrants that are opening that are empty I think we'll be in the same boat. I don't see a world where people come to shows even with all this stuff in place. Shows will be more expensive to produce and make less money. One breakout traced back to a theatre and the whole thing is shot. We'll need legit guidance from government on this. In my state I think the guidance will be "stay closed". I would go at this the other way, write up what a "normal" day looks like, hand that to your public health expert, and see what they come back with.
One major thing I think is being missed in this discussion is the types of shows you will be able to have when you have to apply social distancing to the cast and crew as well.

One of the theatre co's I work with is a children's summer program and you won't be able to cram the 45 or more people and crew in and throughout the small backstage areas they have.
Likewise no "waiting in the wings" or squeezing the orchestra into the pit.
The booth also has 4 people in it and there's no way in that size to do that, so even more seating will be eaten up by moving video or sound out into the house.
Also what about large onstage group choreographed numbers? Will performers have to wear masks too? Do we have to have multiple intermissions to sterilize backstage and curtains between major movements?

You start trying to grasp all the implications (in all the free time you now have sitting around) and it makes you just want to give-up and go figure out another occupation!
 

BillConnerFASTC

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 30, 2010
Location
Clayton NY 13624
That ballet lift at 6' apart will be something. There will simply be a large segment of performing arts that should not be done. Solo and small ensemble where people can spread out a little maybe possible. Vocalists will reject the masks though perhaps not necessary as sufficient distance. No end to the challenges.

Hopefully there will be a vaccine eventually and immunity will last. Until then, public assembly seems risky.
 

RonHebbard

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Joined
Jun 12, 2004
Location
Waterdown, ON, CA
That ballet lift at 6' apart will be something. There will simply be a large segment of performing arts that should not be done. Solo and small ensemble where people can spread out a little maybe possible. Vocalists will reject the masks though perhaps not necessary as sufficient distance. No end to the challenges.

Hopefully there will be a vaccine eventually and immunity will last. Until then, public assembly seems risky.
Loving your ballet lift example!
Olympic tennis possibly; weight lifting likely; solo figure skating maybe; dance no way.

Marching bands spread apart by 2 Metres; interesting, think of the synchronization problems due to the accumulated time lag over the length of any decent sized marching band.
Toodleoo!
Ron Hebbard
 

What Rigger?

I'm so fly....I Neverland.
Joined
Aug 24, 2006
Location
PPT.
Well, here is one live concert coming up,
Travis Mc live in Arkansas
This got shut down hard today. Why? Because they didn't get approval from the state health agency, it was scheduled for 3 days BEFORE the re-open start date, and no proof of any protocols in place. So the Governor said "No" and squashed it. To which I shed zero tears.
 

TimMc

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Joined
Feb 15, 2017
This got shut down hard today. Why? Because they didn't get approval from the state health agency, it was scheduled for 3 days BEFORE the re-open start date, and no proof of any protocols in place. So the Governor said "No" and squashed it. To which I shed zero tears.
Yes. The Arkansas Alcoholic Beverage Control Board told Temple Live they'd get their liquor license revoked and Temple decided maybe doing a show was a bad idea after all.
 

What Rigger?

I'm so fly....I Neverland.
Joined
Aug 24, 2006
Location
PPT.
Perhaps beating a dead horse, but Lamb of God's Randy Blythe hits the nail on the head. Enforcing new behaviors may not fly at all in certain genre's. I mean, when I was in my teens/20's/30's, there was no way I listened to any venue's rules about "No moshing/No pits/No stage diving/No crowd surfing". I wanted it loud and aggro and the only guy in the world with the sack to actually stop a show, to stop the pit, was Fugazi's Ian Mackaye; he hated pits and would mock you for being a tough guy.

 
  • Like
Reactions: JohnD

JChenault

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 5, 2009
Location
seattle, wa USA
small tidbit. If you are doing layout for maintaining a six foot distance between people, you should be using a 3' diameter circle (or what ever shape you prefer) and not a 6' diameter one. heck, if you want to get real nitty gritty, you might consider 3.5' to account for the fact that people are finally small like a dot in the middle of that circle. point being a 6' diameter circle would get you a 12' distance between two people.
I think you mean a radius of 3 feet, not a diameter of 3 feet. ( and a circle with a radius of three feet has a diameter of 6 feet)
 

mbrown3039

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 20, 2018
Location
vegas, baby..!
I would STRONGLY suggest you look into hiring an outside consultant to help created your procedure or delay until resources like the ESA release guidance. The liability fallout of an outbreak will be disastrous and at this point there is insufficient data for the average "user" to develop a reliable and effective plan. This is not in any way a comment on your personal ability or qualification, but rather that even the experts in public health crisis don't yet agree on what works.
We've developed a solution that is scalable to the size of the application and is both user friendly and effective; if dealing with larger groups of people who are entering all-at-once, the camera can scan up to 30 heads at the same time, helping you direct only those who might have a fever to secondary scanning; if you're in a smaller environment, then you may just need tablets.

If you're in the southern Nevada area, we can do an on-site demo of any/all the pieces. DM me if interested in more info, m
 

Attachments

FMEng

Well-Known Member
Fight Leukemia
Joined
Mar 31, 2008
Location
Tacoma, WA
Checking temperatures of a mass of people seems like one of those things that makes us feel safer, but actually doesn't accomplish much.

A virologist said today that people are most infectious with Covid-19 before they feel sick or have a temperature. That's the insidious and different thing about it. With other viruses, you can usually tell when you are contagious, and take precautions to prevent spreading it. This is what the anti-maskers and the open it all up gang refuse to understand.
 

mbrown3039

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 20, 2018
Location
vegas, baby..!
Checking temperatures of a mass of people seems like one of those things that makes us feel safer, but actually doesn't accomplish much.
Not the case at all. While a certain number of cases do present asymptomatically -- or, at least, without a fever as one of the symptoms -- the majority of cases seem to include an elevated temperature as an indicator. Additionally, an elevated temperature is still a reliable indicator of a whole host of other contagious diseases, so the system helps catch those folks, too. No system will be 100%, but using this type of technology is very effective; so much so, the FDA and CDC have published guidelines for it's use. Also, if you've flown to Asia (HK, Seoul, Tokyo, etc.) in the last ten years or so, one of these systems scanned you while you were waiting in the customs line...
 
  • Sad
Reactions: RonHebbard

BillConnerFASTC

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 30, 2010
Location
Clayton NY 13624
Sorry mbrown but WHO seems to side with FM on this. https://www.who.int/news-room/artic...ning alone, at,tracing of incoming travellers.

From that article "Temperature screening alone, at exit or entry, is not an effective way to stop international spread, since infected individuals may be in incubation period, may not express apparent symptoms early on in the course of the disease, or may dissimulate fever through the use of antipyretics; in addition, such measures require substantial investments for what may bear little benefits. It is more effective to provide prevention recommendation messages to travellers and to collect health declarations at arrival, with travellers’ contact details, to allow for a proper risk assessment and a possible contact tracing of incoming travellers."

Tough spot for some - either agree with WHO or side with Trump against WHO.
 

mbrown3039

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 20, 2018
Location
vegas, baby..!
That article specifically addresses the value of temperature screening as it relates to international travel, not re-opening procedures for entertainment venues in the US (or, apparently, meat-packing plants, auto factories, Amazon, warehouses, etc.). While it will not catch 100% of sick people (whether with CV19, SARS, MERS, the "common" flu or some other infectious disease), the medical fact remains that a fever is strong indicator that your body is fighting an infection of some sort. Using this type of systems provides the venue operator with more information than they would have without it, which allows them to make a more informed decision.

If I am planning a night on the town and I have a choice between two venues, one with thermal imaging tech and the other without, I am taking the one with the tech 100% of the time. m

*EDIT: If I am planning a night on the town and I have a choice between two venues that are both requiring masks and practicing distancing, deep cleaning measures, etc., but one has thermal imaging tech and the other does not, I am taking the one with the tech 100% of the time.
 
Last edited:

BillConnerFASTC

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 30, 2010
Location
Clayton NY 13624
If I am planning a night on the town and I have a choice between two venues, one with thermal imaging tech and the other without, I am taking the one with the tech 100% of the time. m
I would look at what the others are doing before making that decision. For instance, if the all the place with thermal scanning does is thermal scanning, and the other place requires mask for customers and employees, provides for social distancing, shows evidence of regular deep cleaning, perhaps will offer on the spot testing in the near future, etc., the thermal scans are of little concern or value to me.

fms point that someone can be very contagious and not show signs, including temperature, is true in entertainment venues as well as travel.
 
  • Love
Reactions: RonHebbard