Design Receptacles today

[BillConnerFASTC]

With central dimmers and dimmed circuits, it seemed pretty natural to use a basic grounded stage pin for dimmed circuits and on conventional fixtures, and basic 5-15R or 5-20R variant for the relatively few non dimmed ciruits. I was even convinced on a few occasions to use a L5-20R for something special - like a dimmed orchestra shell light or even relay controlled non-dimmed work lights. I sort of moved away from that because I no longer wanted to make it hard to do something that users would do, even if I didn't approve. Lets face it, entertainment technicians will figure out a way to do something despite the intentions of the building - or equipment - designer. (And I usually parallel 5-15R to dimmed circuits near the floor for the odd practical rather than make the users build an adapter - which I also include in the kit anyways.)

So, in this new world of - for many projects - no dimmed circuits - just constant and relay controlled - I've sort of fallen into the ETC suggestion of using L5-20Rs for relay - paralleling a 5-20R off a few relay circuits for convenience - and 5-15R or 5-20Rs for constant circuits. (L5-30Rs for 120 vac follow spots usually.) Been thinking about using L5-15Rs for relay circuits because it's available as a duplex and since the plan is a max of 10 LEDs on a 20 amp circuit in the 100-125 watt range, not an issue.

So, what do you want to see as users, in particular in a 100% LED house, allowing for portable single dimmers or even a 4 channel/20 amp bar dimmer.

 

[porkchop]

Given the relatively similar cost I pretty much always prefer a locking connector over a straight bladed one. 5-15Rs make sense for convenience sockets that are likely to be used for tools and other utility power functions, but otherwise locking for everything.
As far as 20A vs 15A I understand why people think they need the larger plug, but in real use cases I have rarely found a work-space that actually needed more than a handful of the larger 20A sockets. I personally would rather see L6-15s or L6-20s to run 208V equipment.

 

[JD]

To make matters more interesting, there are now locking 5-15R connectors. Of course they are currently 3 to 4 times as expensive as stage-pins. http://www.stayonline.com/detail.aspx?id=27435
In my perfect world (which no longer exists as I am retired), Stage Pin for dimmers, Twist for 208 non-dim, and locking U ground for 120 non-dim.

I think in a few years we are going to have to take a long hard look at connectors and power distribution given that the days of 2k, 4k, and 6k dimmers are showing in the rear view mirror. As LEDs take hold, power usage on stages is plummeting. In the not-too-distant future, we may look at the coils of 12/3 SO we have as prehistoric as I feel at some point the standard 20 amp circuit may even be in danger of obsolescence.

 

[danTt]

I'm not a big fan of L5-*. It's easy to confuse with L6-* at a quick glance, and having inventories of both is just asking for issues. I think I'd rather see edison, L6-20, and stagepin (well, and now powercon, and powercon true1, and whatever someone invents next week... but do we really need yet another set of cables in all useful lengths with another connector?)

Following on the post by @JD above, I'm more curious to see how the industry adapts to autosensing power supplies. I have very few pieces of equipment that are not autosensing at this point, and depending where I'm using that equipment it seems to frequently bounce between running on 120 or 208. What connector do you put on this gear? I've been leaning towards true1, with adaptors as necessary, but I'm kind of waiting for code to evolve/devolop on this before commiting to anything.

 

[MRW Lights]

I would also tag on the question of the preference of pigtail vs panel mount?

Granted I'm biased by or perhaps against my static grid, but I have pigtails from raceways and a rep plot mostly LED's. Rather than having a bunch of empty pigtails hanging everywhere we use a lot of tie line to hold up empty tails...

I think it's still a point of convenience and aesthetic, but all the same may have bearing on connectors. Heaven knows I'd much rather fix a connector on a tail than go putting my hands in a raceway or nowadays a portable dimming bar and having been in a few spaces where repairs have caused pigtails to get a little shorter with each repair I wonder which is more practical?

 

[BillConnerFASTC]

The pigtail vs panel mount is interesting side discussion. I was a pigtail fan for catwalks and electrics. Catwalks I'd put raceway high with 6' tails so you had a lot of reach, but those days of a receptacle every 18-24" are gone. Plug boxes every 20-30', and powercon jumpers for power through fixtures.

So much has to do with situation as well. Most high schools simply don't move fixtures around like a college or pro-house does.

Would be nice if true was universal on fixtures or maybe powercon re-classified could be used in a plug boxes.

 

[SteveB]

I dumped my L5 twist connectors on all my movers for edisons.

HATE twist in any event, still have a space with old style. Did I say I hate them ?

I'll use L6 by necessity with 208v rental stuff.

Edisons work as all my ML's are 120v. In the rental house, all the relay outlets are 20 amp Edison, all dimmed stuff is 2P&G.

One less connector.

 

[JonCarter]

I would recommend dumping the Edisons for stage light use. (The #$%^ plugs fall out!) Pick a pair of NON-USUAL connectors for dimmed and non-dim power, say, split pin for dimmed and if you need both 120 & 240 non-dimmed, use two of the same family (2 types of twistlocks?) for them. Keep the Edisons on stage & shop for things like power tools, work lights, and other non-stage-light-system-controlled stuff.

 

[BillConnerFASTC]

I am surprised by preference for the 5-15R ("Edison") over the L5-15R or L5-20R. I wonder if it's a question of the quality of a particular device manufacturer or a fundamental flaw with the concept.

I have not sensed a need in high schools and small college or community spaces for 220 distributed.

 

[TJCornish]

I am surprised by preference for the 5-15R ("Edison") over the L5-15R or L5-20R. I wonder if it's a question of the quality of a particular device manufacturer or a fundamental flaw with the concept.

I have not sensed a need in high schools and small college or community spaces for 220 distributed.

I think stage-pin makes sense for dimmed devices, but I don't see the advantage of twist lock for relay/always on. Most lighting gear comes with Edison plugs, so making it twist lock ready requires purchasing a plug and potentially modifying the fixture, or at least the cord it came with. The alternative is twist lock to Edison adapters, which are another cost and inventory item. The (presumably) shorter life of electronic fixtures means it's less likely you can load up a venue with an initial set of fixtures and expect them to last with few adds or changes for 20+ years, so cord modification is a continuous thing. Rental equipment will have the same issues.

I have not been around in the industry as long as some of you have, but I have not found NEMA twist locks to lock particularly well, and they can wear out, as can Edison receptacles. If Edison plugs are falling out, it's a maintenance issue.

I agree on not much need for 208v power in small to medium houses. There are only a few devices these days that need them - mostly 1200w fixtures like VL3000s and VL4000s.

Edit - I would go 5-20R - not sure why one would do 5-15R.

 

[epimetheus]

Why not 5-15R? When was the last time anyone saw a end usage device with a 5-20 plug? Short of a table saw or UPS, I'm not sure I've ever even seen one. The internals of a 5-15R are rated to pass 20A through the rear terminals, thus the allowance to use them on 20A circuits (as long as there's more the one receptacle on the circuit (a single duplex receptacle counts NEC 210.21(B)(1))).

My church main sanctuary is dimmer per circuit (288 ckt.) with stage pin, 120V relays with 5-15R (or 5-20R, not sure, see above comment), and 208V relays with L6-20R. We've got several new automated fixtures that are autosensing (100-240V) with powercon connectors (both original and true1). We just change the connector on the vendor supplied cable based on the voltage we're running them at. Before Easter I converted 2 of our stage pin two-fers to L6-20 for our new Mk2 Spot's since we have more available 208V relays than 120V relays near where we mounted them. We also have pigtails for the dimmed circuits and panel mount receptacles for the utility circuits (both 120V and 208V). I have no issues with this arrangement. I prefer the pigtails for dimmed circuits. Our circuit strips are mounted on the upper rail of our catwalks and the fixtures are mounted on a raised lower rail. Our pigtails are 12-18" long. This works out pretty well with the standard S4 fixture whip length.

My vote is for stage pin for installed dimmers, 5-15R for 120V relays or constant utility, L6-20 for 208-240 relays or constant utility. I could see the argument for L14-20 instead of L6-20 for 208-240V. This would allow for that circuit to be used for automated fixtures or bi-phase distributed dimmers (ETC Smartbar, etc.).

 

[TJCornish]

Why not 5-15R?

Similar question to you - Why not 5-20R? The wiring can handle it and the receptacle cost is the same. What's the downside to 20A capability in case you need it?

 

[BillConnerFASTC]

Similar question to you - Why not 4-20R? The wiring can handle it and the receptacle cost is the same. What's the downside to 20A capability in case you need it?

OK. I give up. I can't find a 4-R20.

I'll confess I don't very often get into other thanh 125v stuff - again primarily non-professional spaces. (Last one - the Alley Theatre - just wanted company switches - everywhere - and will use portable distro - I think a fine solution.)

While it shouldn't matter and labels should be sufficient, I like to differentiate constant versus relay circuits by receptacle. I suppose single receptacles on a strap versus duplex might do that.

I grew up on twist lock in high school and college - L2-20s (as side from a few stage plugs - for the Olivetties) - and while they are nowhere near as robust as a stage pin (or stage plug for that matter) I see a lot more 5-15s and 5-20s "falling out" than the L-versions. I'm fine with the 15 also - since it's based on 10 - 100 watt LEDs max. or maybe an occasional ES750. But, I'm listening. I feel like if I asked the potential users they'd opt for locking - based on thinking about it not on experience. Which is why I ask here - more experienced experience.

 

[TJCornish]

OK. I give up. I can't find a 4-R20.

I'll confess I don't very often get into other thanh 125v stuff - again primarily non-professional spaces. (Last one - the Alley Theatre - just wanted company switches - everywhere - and will use portable distro - I think a fine solution.)

While it shouldn't matter and labels should be sufficient, I like to differentiate constant versus relay circuits by receptacle. I suppose single receptacles on a strap versus duplex might do that.

I grew up on twist lock in high school and college - L2-20s (as side from a few stage plugs - for the Olivetties) - and while they are nowhere near as robust as a stage pin (or stage plug for that matter) I see a lot more 5-15s and 5-20s "falling out" than the L-versions. I'm fine with the 15 also - since it's based on 10 - 100 watt LEDs max. or maybe an occasional ES750. But, I'm listening. I feel like if I asked the potential users they'd opt for locking - based on thinking about it not on experience. Which is why I ask here - more experienced experience.

Apologies - typo. I meant 5-20R.

RE the 15/20 option, I suppose it's a mentality thing - if there's no additional cost for hypothetical additional capability, I'd rather do it than to approach it from the 'only do what's needed' direction.

The potential use case that comes to mind is being able to use a shoebox dimmer for more channels in a pinch. Many of them require 5-20 receptacles.

 

[techieman33]

I would prefer non locking in that kind of environment. I remember having L5-20's in high school and we would end up having at least a couple of those plugs melt every year. Now I know that they needed some maintenance, but back then none of us students knew that kind of stuff. And our teacher knew just enough to make things work. As long as the plug went in and locked we thought we were good to go. How often will those locking plugs not get locked and end up making a poor connection as a result? How often will they get pulled on and instead of coming unplugged end up ripping out the wires leaving live wires exposed? The only real plus side of see of using one is that helps stop someone from plugging in their 18 gauge orange extension cord where it shouldn't be.

 

[epimetheus]

Similar question to you - Why not 5-20R? The wiring can handle it and the receptacle cost is the same. What's the downside to 20A capability in case you need it?

I have no problem with 5-20R, if the receptacle cost truly is the same.

How many shoebox dimmers come with 5-20 plugs? The 20A rating can't typically be realized anyway unless using 100% rated breakers.

 

[SteveB]

My vote is for stage pin for installed dimmers, 5-15R for 120V relays or constant utility, L6-20 for 208-240 relays or constant utility. (ETC Smartbar, etc.).

This.

No, a 5-15 doesn't lock, but L5's come unlocked all the time. For critical connections I gaff tape the junction. I'll do this on 2P&G in on-deck connections as well, so habit.

As stated earlier, I hate twist lock in general. The male's get dropped and now you are pulling out your Leatherman to bend the blades back, as well a slight un-twist when tying up a bundle and you've lost a connection.

Plus I've a ton of edison extensions, Lex Strings, quad boxes, home made short quads with pass-through's, etc.... The fixtures are 120v, a bunch are LED Aura's that are low amperage units, all lend them themselves to easy power distribution using 5-15, that I have a ton of. I went the L5 adapter route and finally tossed the connectors. Too much work.

And with 24 relays as well as other 120V AC distro around, all using Edison, it's just a no brainer.

 

[TJCornish]

I have no problem with 5-20R, if the receptacle cost truly is the same.

How many shoebox dimmers come with 5-20 plugs? The 20A rating can't typically be realized anyway unless using 100% rated breakers.

I personally own shoebox dimmers from Leprecon and Elation that have 5-20 plugs.

 

[sk8rsdad]

but L5's come unlocked all the time

Funny, I've never had an L5 come unlocked, ever. I've seen cases where the tech didn't know enough to give it a twist but even that was rare. I guess it's a cultural thing.

 

[TJCornish]

Funny, I've never had an L5 come unlocked, ever. I've seen cases where the tech didn't know enough to give it a twist but even that was rare. I guess it's a cultural thing.

I frequently have trouble with 12/3 SOOW cord and twist locks. Unless you pre-twist the connection, the twist of the heavy SOOW cord can unlock the connector.