Microphones Recording for Choral Festivals

[Mattthetech]

I am looking for a good microphone set up for recording choirs and bands.

I run a theater that is part of our school district in town. We run various events from musicals to choir shows to dance to rock concerts. I am looking for something that could possibly be on the more permanent basis, as sometimes we don't have a lot of time to set up between different events. also, with a permanent set up, we have the option to record other things if requested.

Does anyone have any suggestions?

 

[Aman121]

I am looking for a good microphone set up for recording choirs and bands.

I run a theater that is part of our school district in town. We run various events from musicals to choir shows to dance to rock concerts. I am looking for something that could possibly be on the more permanent basis, as sometimes we don't have a lot of time to set up between different events. also, with a permanent set up, we have the option to record other things if requested.

Does anyone have any suggestions?

What other hardware do you have to work with? What are your mounting options? How did you decide on only using one microphone? Answering these questions and providing more information on your goals and limitations will help us offer better advice. Also, check out this recent similar thread for more ideas. http://www.controlbooth.com/threads/recording-system-for-a-school-auditorium.33057/

Before I forget, welcome to the community!

 

[Mattthetech]

What other hardware do you have to work with? What are your mounting options? How did you decide on only using one microphone? Answering these questions and providing more information on your goals and limitations will help us offer better advice. Also, check out this recent similar thread for more ideas. http://www.controlbooth.com/threads/recording-system-for-a-school-auditorium.33057/

Before I forget, welcome to the community!

Thank you! I have been a follower of the forum for a while, but just recently joined. I havent decided on anything really. It doesnt need to be only one microphone. i figured it would probably be multiple mics at different placements, but id like it to be a fairly permanent instal. We have choir festivals at the theater and all of the high schools from around bring their choirs to perform and be "reviewed" by 3 judges, who will record their statments onto a small personal recorder. The instructors like to have us record each choir so they can take the judges comments back to class and read them to the class while reviewing the recordings. our difficulty is that there is no time to set up between each group, or is there time to edit the recording. We literally record it live, finalize the CD and hand it off while the next group is setting up on stage. We will have 10 - 15 different choirs within a 4 or 5 hour performance window. I havent really decided on anything yet, just brainstorming.

Our theater seats 1250 people with 800 on the main floor and 450 in the balcony. there are 5 cove spots spread across the front of the balcony that are normally used for lighting, but can be reserved to mount microphones. there are multiple placement options ranging from the balcony railings on the side of the house to the proscenium arch to the back of the house, depending on how big the microphones we are using are. Is it better to place a mic up high? We are using a M7CL as our sound console.

 

[sk8rsdad]

You may want to do a search for "dance competition adjudication software". There are a number of systems out there that support recording adjudication comments and performance video/audio.

 

[bishopthomas]

Recording a choir and recording a band are going to be two TOTALLY different animals. I'll address the choir archival recording aspect first....... You'll want at least a pair of mics. Placement will be determined by what is available at your venue. On a stand in the balcony might not be the best option as you'll get a lot of the sound of the room. This could end up being a good thing, but if your room (or that spot in the balcony) doesn't sound great then neither will your recording. The only real way to choose a position is to listen at various places in the room. This includes every axis: X, Y, and Z (height). As far as mic selection goes, for the most part you get what you pay for. If you buy a pair of $100 mics then your recording will sound like it. You have to decide what it's worth to you, considering what the purpose of the recording is.

Now, once you have your main pair of mics set up where they sound the best you may find that you'll need to spot mic the various sections. Maybe the tenor section is weak and the main pair is not picking them up; having a spot mic on that section will allow you to bring more of that in as needed. On the other hand, maybe you are going for accurately reproducing what is heard in the room. In that case spot mics may not be necessary, however, know that accuracy does not always equal "best" sound.

Now for how to actually capture the audio: Since you have an M7 there are several ways you can track the audio. The simplest will be to use a pair of mix outs to send to the recorder of your preference. Mix 1 will be left, Mix 2 right. If you're just using a pair of mics then it's really simple: send mic one of your stereo pair to Mix 1 and mic 2 to Mix 2. This will give you a hard panned stereo image and is the most basic way of capturing the performance. If you are adding spot mics then you'll want to mix those in as needed, using both mixes evenly for center placement, or you can send more to Mix 1 or Mix 2 in order to place those spots in the appropriate place in the stereo image. What media do you need the recording to be on when you hand it over? Whatever you use as a recorder, remember that you're going to be operating at line level (if you're using the M7CL as front end).

For mic suggestions it really just depends on your budget. I would probably start with something like a pair of Neumann KM184's, but that might be beyond your budget. Don't go cheap here, if it's worth doing then it's worth doing right.

Oh, I just saw that you want the judges remarks recorded as well. Are they miked for the PA system? If so you can just add them into the mix. If not then you'll need to mic them, preferably individually in order to get their comments to tape.

 

[bishopthomas]

Recording a band is going to be quite different and require quite a bit more setup. If you're miking individual instruments for the PA then you're already a step ahead. You may (probably) won't want the same mix for the room to go to tape, although that's a really quick and rough way to do it. I would create a separate stereo mix that's separate from the FOH sound. If you're not miking the instruments then a pair of mics in the room isn't going to be optimal but can work. Really the best simple way to do this is to mic all instruments whether they need room reinforcement or not. This will require quite a bit more setup time, effort, and equipment. Once you do it a few times you'll get a system down and be able to learn and improve the quality as you go along.

Good luck!!

 

[Mattthetech]

Recording a choir and recording a band are going to be two TOTALLY different animals. I'll address the choir archival recording aspect first....... You'll want at least a pair of mics. Placement will be determined by what is available at your venue. On a stand in the balcony might not be the best option as you'll get a lot of the sound of the room. This could end up being a good thing, but if your room (or that spot in the balcony) doesn't sound great then neither will your recording. The only real way to choose a position is to listen at various places in the room. This includes every axis: X, Y, and Z (height). As far as mic selection goes, for the most part you get what you pay for. If you buy a pair of $100 mics then your recording will sound like it. You have to decide what it's worth to you, considering what the purpose of the recording is.

Now, once you have your main pair of mics set up where they sound the best you may find that you'll need to spot mic the various sections. Maybe the tenor section is weak and the main pair is not picking them up; having a spot mic on that section will allow you to bring more of that in as needed. On the other hand, maybe you are going for accurately reproducing what is heard in the room. In that case spot mics may not be necessary, however, know that accuracy does not always equal "best" sound.

Now for how to actually capture the audio: Since you have an M7 there are several ways you can track the audio. The simplest will be to use a pair of mix outs to send to the recorder of your preference. Mix 1 will be left, Mix 2 right. If you're just using a pair of mics then it's really simple: send mic one of your stereo pair to Mix 1 and mic 2 to Mix 2. This will give you a hard panned stereo image and is the most basic way of capturing the performance. If you are adding spot mics then you'll want to mix those in as needed, using both mixes evenly for center placement, or you can send more to Mix 1 or Mix 2 in order to place those spots in the appropriate place in the stereo image. What media do you need the recording to be on when you hand it over? Whatever you use as a recorder, remember that you're going to be operating at line level (if you're using the M7CL as front end).

For mic suggestions it really just depends on your budget. I would probably start with something like a pair of Neumann KM184's, but that might be beyond your budget. Don't go cheap here, if it's worth doing then it's worth doing right.

Oh, I just saw that you want the judges remarks recorded as well. Are they miked for the PA system? If so you can just add them into the mix. If not then you'll need to mic them, preferably individually in order to get their comments to tape.

Thank you! this helps a lot. My budget will depend on interest from others throughout the district. If the instructors believe this will help their students and teachings, then the Neuman KM184's are not out of question. I definitely try to work under the mindset of purchasing something good once, rather than something bad multiple times. The judges just record themselves on individual recording devices and we rip them to a CD once they are finished. Not a big problem there.

As far as the bands go, i think it would be too difficult to try and mic individual instraments as some of these bands could have up to 50 or 60 pieces. I could attempt to mic each section, as that might create a more even recording. The thing to remember about both the choir and the band recordings is that we want to get what the group actually sounds like live. So if i add a mic because the tenor part is weak then the instructor will not understand that the tenors need to sing out more.

I believe you are right in that i need to look for good quality mics and try my placements in different areas of the theater to find what will work best.

Thanks for the help!

 

[pmolsonmus]

Hi,

As a choral director (23 yrs) and recording hobbyist ( I moderate at recording.org) I would first decide your budget and instead of buying equipment right off the bat, contact a local studio or engineer that does remote recording. Tell them what you would like to do, pay them for an hour or 2 to come out to look at your space and let them give you advice for the next step. A simple pair of omni mics (while not necessarily the best) might be THE best set-it-and-forget-it type set up.
Acoustic ensembles should be rehearsed and trained to be balanced. If there ain't enough tenors, don't give them a fake "fixed in the mix" recording- you as recording engineer should NOT adjust their acoustic mix! That is not your job for this gig. What I would want after a festival would be a relatively accurate recording of what the ensemble sounded like in the hall. Do not go for anything complex. Keep it simple and run a back up system! In all likelihood some simple stereo set-up (Decca, ORTF, Spaced Omnis) etc... will probably be best. A consideration for mono capability MAY also be needed. Regardless, always check for phase issues. Also, let the engineer know that there will be judges talking into handheld devices giving critical notes - it may definitely affect mic placement. You also should consider "Judge Placement" if possible if you are recording - keep them away - some talk loudly!

I have had the experience on 2 separate occasions where we expected (and were promised) a recording and they didn't deliver! Once at Orchestra Hall in Chicago and once at the Kennedy Center in DC. The festival hired someone and they dropped the ball - I'm sure the halls have their pros but the festival didn't want to pay their price. You get what you pay for - or sometimes (as in our case) you don't get what you paid for.
At the very minimum in addition to whatever software DAW you use, run a simple stereo direct to CD or direct to hard disk back up for the ENTIRE festival.

Belt and suspenders time.

Phil

 

[bishopthomas]

When you said "band" I immediately went to rock bands and such. I agree with Phil completely, especially the mentality of not fixing it in the mix. If there's something that doesn't sound good in the room (or at least where the mics are) then it simply won't sound good on the recording. Phil brings up another good point: ALWAYS BACKUP! Good luck!