Recording system for a school auditorium

Hello all, my school is looking into purchasing a computer-based recording system for our auditorium. we would like to be able to hang a single mic up high and a little in front of the stage (condenser mic?) we also will be needing an interface to connect to our pc, as well as a powerful but basic recording software (NO PRO TOOLS! something easy to use/learn but with powerful editing abilities.) we ill be using this to record our school concerts and other similar events. We have a mackie board with usb built in but i think the interface would be a better route. Our budget is between $1,000-$1,500, with a little room to bend. any suggestions on what we should look into?
 
What is the purpose of the recording? For anything beyond archival or rehearsal type use you might want more than a microphone or stereo pair of microphones out in the house. I typically tend to run ambient mics into the mixer and use aux sends, or in your case possibly the USB connection, for recording that way not only can you include other inputs in the recording mix but you can also mix the ambient microphone(s) into other mixes such as for ALS, comms program audio or overflow audio to other spaces.

Which mixer do you have? What can be recorded via USB as well as any provided software can differ between models that could be relevant.

Do you have any idea what may be involved in getting the microphones mounted and cable run to them? Will it require any conduit, mic mounts, etc.? If those costs have to come out of your budget then that might affect how much you have left for everything else.

Do you have an existing PC to be dedicated to recording or may it also be serving other functions while you are recording performances?
 
We would be using the recording system to recird winter concerts galas and other similar events. The music dept would like to be able to sell the recordings of our gala as well as use the recordings of concerts to show the kids in the classroom whatvto improve on... So it definatly needs to be of good quality... We have a mackie 2404 vlz3 that can send 4 mono channels or 2 stereo channels via usb. We do have a desktop pc in our booth that we currently run audacity on as well as some basic sound cues. we would need to have it installed by pros... We are thinking having it be hung from one of the catwalks right infront of the stage and we would need at least 100-150 ft of xlr cable... I dont know if mabey we should go for a pair of chior mics or one really nice traditional condenser... We would only want to do a stereo or mono recording....
 
We only sell it to the students who perform in the concerts... We hav been doing it for over 30 years... Does anyone have any mic suggestions cause thats what im really looking for...
 
Doesn't matter who you sell it to, it could still be illegal. My suggestion is look for a hanging recording mic. They'll generally be condensers. But if you are sending that into a cheep behringer input box or mackie to the computer and recording in very low bit rate that it won't mater how much you spend on a mic. The quality of the recording is based on the worst link in the chain...
 
We only sell it to the students who perform in the concerts... We hav been doing it for over 30 years... Does anyone have any mic suggestions cause thats what im really looking for...
Having done something for many years does not make it right nor does it prevent things from changing. If you are thinking the education exemption applies then it being a school event or on school property is not necessarily relevant, it is the educational aspect such as being used for part of the direct teaching of an established curriculum that matters and outside of such use rights may have to be procured.

Do you use the house PA for soloists and emcees or for accompaniment playback, background music and so on? A hanging microphone is probably not going to pick that up as the audience hears it, which is one reason why I suggest running the microphone into a mixer with the other system sources and creating a recording mix.
 
Having done something for many years does not make it right nor does it prevent things from changing. If you are thinking the education exemption applies then it being a school event or on school property is not necessarily relevant, it is the educational aspect such as being used for part of the direct teaching of an established curriculum that matters and outside of such use rights may have to be procured.

Do you use the house PA for soloists and emcees or for accompaniment playback, background music and so on? A hanging microphone is probably not going to pick that up as the audience hears it, which is one reason why I suggest running the microphone into a mixer with the other system sources and creating a recording mix.


dude both high schools and all the middle schools in my district have been doing it for 40 years... mind you that the superintendent always attends our galas and they always see the forms that they are handing out at the concert and we usually bring in a pro every year to record it but we would like to save on costs and get the dept. 100% profit, and its totally legal its not like we are putting it on the web or something we burn 50 cds and call it a day... and i definatly think we should have it connected into a board for use of variety shows and such but for winter concerts where we JUST record the music on stage then we will need a proper interface (nothing too fancy...)
 
Dude I'm telling you its not legal unless you have the rights to it. Is your superintendent a royalties lawyer? Or even a lawyer? Probably not, I'm not going to suggest anything for use in a possible illegal activity.

BTW the argument of well they do it doesn't stand in court.... How bad do you think it would sound if I sold meth and told the judge that the guys down the street were doing it so it must be okay.

We get this all the time, make sure you have the rights to record and sell the music because it doesn't matter if its 1 or 5 million copies its still 5-25 in prison and up to 500k$ in fines.
 
dude both high schools and all the middle schools in my district have been doing it for 40 years... mind you that the superintendent always attends our galas and they always see the forms that they are handing out at the concert and we usually bring in a pro every year to record it but we would like to save on costs and get the dept. 100% profit, and its totally legal its not like we are putting it on the web or something we burn 50 cds and call it a day... and i definatly think we should have it connected into a board for use of variety shows and such but for winter concerts where we JUST record the music on stage then we will need a proper interface (nothing too fancy...)
I think it may be improtant to address the copyright aspect as it sounds like it could affect the budget or even the use. From what you've indicated, the performances are not in a classroom or part of direct teaching, the performances and recordings are for entertainment purposes. I am not an attorney specializing in Intellectual Property, and I doubt that you are either, however I have researched the topic and everything I have been told by subject matter experts such as rights organization and attorneys or have read on the topic indicates that what you are doing is not legal unless the proper rights have been addressed. Assuming you have already obtained any related Public Performance Rights, Grand Rights, etc., you apparently may be able to record one copy for archival and review purposes but that is all that is typically allowed without obtaining associated Reproduction and/or Mechanical rights for each piece performed. That you've been doing otherwise for years and the Superintendent atending the events is likely irrelevant except perhaps in working against you should copyright ever become an issue. There is plenty of related information available, here are just a few from a quick search:

Educational Uses of Non-coursepack Materials :: Copyright Overview by Rich Stim :: Stanford Copyright and Fair Use Center

https://musiced.nafme.org/resources/copyright-center/

NAfME – Music Education – United States Copyright Law: A Guide for Music Educators (Part 1)

https://musiced.nafme.org/resources...w-before-recording-your-schools-performances/

https://musiced.nafme.org/resources/copyright-center/copyright-law-what-music-teachers-need-to-know/

https://musiced.nafme.org/resources/mea-managers-webinar-on-copyright/

MTNA Copyright Guidelines for Music Teachers

Perhaps the related rights are actually being addressed without your knowledge, but before processing with adding the recording hardware it makes sense to first verify with appropriate parties such as the school's/district's legal counsel that the related copyright issues are being properly addressed.
 
thank you for informing me of these laws. i am most DEFINTLY certain the music dept. has the rights. i am just the student and i dont worry about the legal stuff... i am telling you WE HAVE THE RIGHTS!!! if we didnt then we wouldnt have been selling the recordings for the past 40 years (trust me, my supt. is very careful about the law) so if we werent selling the recordings (we only sell them once a friggin year) THAN what would you all suggest? and remember we are a high school not a college.... all i was looking for was some advice... and i am 100% POSITIVE THAT MY MUSIC DEPT. HAS THE LICENSES. Thank you very much! :)
 
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You'll be glad to know that I couldn't care less about whether you have the rights or not. That's the school's problem, not ours, and not even yours. As to the answer to your question, "it depends" is really the only "right" answer. You also get what you pay for. There are a ton of factors in selecting a microphone, and that's only the tip of the iceberg in what you're doing, so I'm not going to just throw out model numbers. I would suggest, though, that you do not rely solely upon a single (or even pair of) microphone(s) as your only source. Hanging a pair is a good start, but you'll want to add in spot mics to fill in the holes. This isn't impossible to do with your setup, but it's going to eat up a pair of auxes to get stereo (which I would recommend) and will require balancing the recording mix on the same console as the house mix. You'll probably be mixing on headphones, so you'll want a good set of closed back phones and you should also learn how mixes translate from headphones to speakers, both in stereo and mono.

As far as mic selection, first you should start with what pattern you want. How does your room sound? Do you want to capture the room with an omni pattern or do you need to try to eliminate the early reflections and standing waves from the recording? Next (and also corresponding to the above decision) is where will you place the mics? The only real way of making this determination is by listening in various places. Although, you may also be limited by what kind of rigging structure is in place. By the way, how will you rig the mics to ensure that they don't fall on someone's head? Again, I don't care if you get sued by a parent with a cracked skull just like I don't care if ASCAP comes after you, but you might want to take it into consideration.

There's really quite a bit to it, enough that what I'd actually like to tell you is that you should keep hiring the professional to do the job, but I know that's not what you want to hear so I thought I'd throw out the distant second advice. Good luck with whatever you decide upon!
 
...(we only sell them once a friggin year) THAN what would you all suggest? and remember we are a high school not a college...
I'll get this out first - it does not matter if it just once a year or that it is a high school, that might factor into potential damages if a rights violations were deemed to have occurred but not into whether it occurred. I also suggest being careful of stating that you know something to be true or that you are 100% sure of something without actually confirming it. Quite frankly, I would have dropped the issue long ago if you said you talked to the right people and confirmed that Reproduction and/or Mechanical rights are addressed, but you seem to be avoiding any actual confirmation.

To add to bishopthomas's points, it's difficult to estimate the installation costs knowing the venue and the procurement process to be used. If the cable is going to at catwalks, permanently installed and exposed rather than in conduit, then you may have to or be best to use plenum rated cable. You may find someone that will sell you the needed length or if you are having it installed your installer should be able to provide the needed length but otherwise you may have to buy a 500' or 1000' reel or spool. Obviously, the type of cable and length you have to buy affect that cost. If you have to spend several hundred dollars on cable and also cover the cost for the connectors and hardware to mount/hang the microphones plus and installation costs then that could eat up a good portion of your budget and probably affect what is feasible for the microphones.
 
Preferred recording equipment

As part of our concerts, we have a number of singer/songwriters. Some of them have expressed an interest in having their music recorded live.
So - we are looking for some reasonably priced equipment with reasonable capabilities. Typically they want their feeds (vocal, instruments) and the house microphones for ambiance. So figure on at least 4 channels for input. If Rob records with his band, we're looking at several more inputs - for a total of 10-12 - if we do all of the inputs as separate channels.

We don't have to do the mixing - that's their problem. If a four channel recorder is a more reasonably priced option - then we'll go for that. I figured that y'all would be a more reasonable place to start to find out about the available equipment rather than any of the dealers.
 
Re: Preferred recording equipment

I have a Zoom H4 portable recorder that records two inputs onto an SD card. I can use the onboard microphones or patch it into the board or any mic of my choice, as it has phantom power. it also works as an interface with a USB cable so i can use it to power the microphones and record straight onto the computer's audio program.
It is easy for me to hand it off to the choir director or band director (or even a student) so they can make audition recordings. but at this point they each have their own for day to day classroom use.

There are a number of these devices on the market search for "portable recorder" or " broadcast recorder"
 
Re: Preferred recording equipment

As an educator, recording hobbyist, composer and member of ASCAP - I can most certainly tell you the school music department DEFINITELY does NOT have the rights. The copyright holder retains those rights and the owner of that copyright is entitled to mechanical royalties for EVERY copy made (sold, unsold, given away) of their selection. This is not grey legal area, it is law.

When a piece of music is published in print, the composer/copyright holder has made the work available for public consumption. Any one can perform it once it is legally purchased. BUT, no one can record it without paying mechanical royalties. Any one can also RECORD the piece if they pay for the mechanical royalties or are waived the royalties by the holder of the copyright. Most large publishing companies use Harry Fox Agency to handle mechanical royalties. The composer/copyright holder cannot deny someone from recording their work once it has been made available. In other words, if you want to record a published piece you are allowed to do so as long as you pay the mechanical royalties.

The exception to this are works in the public domain. They are exempt from mechanical royalties.

Obtaining mechanical rights used to be a huge, time consuming hassle. It isn't anymore, (especially on Harry Fox's site) so there is no excuse other than ignorance or theft of intellectual property. It is possible to obtain and pay the mechanical rights for an entire full-length CD in under :30 minutes. I know, I have done it numerous times.

Regardless of your music department's statement, there is no "Blanket" recording right granted to anyone. Blanket performance rights for schools and non-profits are common.

My .02 - end of rant.

On the subject - a quality single point stereo mic is easiest to transfer, but will not likely give you the live "vibe" you would wish. I suggest you visit recording.org (disclaimer I am a mod there) to get in-depth about what you are trying to do and ways to approach it.
 
Started research on this and this is my first stop... but looking for some answers, opinions, and comments about recording School Concerts using both video and audio formats and then selling these to create revenue for the Music Program for the school. Example a parent would pay $5 for the music CD of the performance or $8 for a DvD video. This would only be for concerts as it is against copyright laws to record (and sell) plays, musicals, etc...

If anyone has experience with actually doing this, could you offer some feedback as to what type of recording audio equipment/software you used and how your revenue was affected?

I'm also looking to do Webcasting of these events (may get a Sport Contract also). I'm beta-testing several stream links but haven't found a good switcher and IP Cameras or Digi ones to use. Any advice on this subject welcomed too... (or should that go under a new thread?)

Thanks all!
 

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