Rental Clients and Food in the lobby

[gafftaper]

I'm really struggling with my rental policy for food and I thought I would throw this out to the wisdom of CB for advice. My theater seats 415 people and the lobby is about 300 square feet. When I first arrived in this position, groups were allowed to do whatever they wanted and the lobby would be full of catering warming ovens serving FANTASTIC Food, but creating huge messes with food in the lobby, messes from food snuck into the theater, and food debris on the patio. So I have been progressively restricting food further and further. Here's what my rider currently says about food:

Food, Drink, and Candy are not allowed in the Theater. Only bottled water is allowed in the theater, on stage, and in the greenroom. Simple handheld snacks and drinks such as candy, cookies, pastry, juice, and coffee, may be served to your audience in the lobby. You are not allowed to serve a “meal” to your audience. Any food requiring a full size plate and utensils may not be served. You may not serve anything requiring refrigeration or warming equipment. If you have any questions, ask the theater manager for approval about the snack you want to serve. You are allowed to serve food to the cast in the backstage hall way next to the greenroom.

There are some cultures where serving a large meal is an important and expected part of every theater event. Unfortunately for me, there are a lot of people from one of these cultural groups in my area. So at least once a month I have a rental where we struggle with the food issue. I keep re-writing my policy hoping they will get what I want. But, instead these groups are always testing my boundaries trying to find new ways to get me to approve them to provide more food to their audiences.

How do you deal with these things? How do I re-write my policy to be culturally sensitive, yet also get the point across that we don't allow anything but snacks the way I think of them? I would love to hear your thoughts.

 

[Amiers]

Have them pitch a tent and eat outside?

 

[cdiamondz]

Have groups that offer food items assist in cleaning?

 

[JohnD]

Take a look at this:
https://www.doh.wa.gov/CommunityandEnvironment/Food/FoodWorkerandIndustry/FoodSafetyRules
Look at the Washington State Food Code Part 9.
You also could only allow food from approved vendors (who comply with the state rules) and are willing to abide with the venue restrictions and do proper event clean up.

 

[gafftaper]

Have them pitch a tent and eat outside?

Principal of the school is adamant that they can do what they want in my PAC, but they are only renting my PAC. She wants no sign of anything on the outside of the school.

Have groups that offer food items assist in cleaning?

It's just too small of a space...
The Lobby

The hall that goes from the lobby past the backstage access to the rest of the school

You can't feed 400 people in that without a disaster!

Take a look at this:
https://www.doh.wa.gov/CommunityandEnvironment/Food/FoodWorkerandIndustry/FoodSafetyRules
Look at the Washington State Food Code Part 9.
You also could only allow food from approved vendors (who comply with the state rules) and are willing to abide with the venue restrictions and do proper event clean up.

Unfortunately they always want to bring in legitimate caterers. So there's no legal angle there.

 

[techieman33]

Could you force them to rent the cafeteria for serving meals?

 

[blueeyesdesigns]

Look into your local occupancy regulations. In most jurisdictions occupancy #'s are directly affected by the way the space is being used. If groups are setting up tables and serving meals, I suspect it will drop the legal occupancy of that space below your seating capacity.

You might also want to implement an explicit and expensive cleaning fee for any mess left behind, including a clause that if extensive cleaning is needed it will be done by a vendor of your choice and billed back to the renter. It's not terribly uncommon and can often be a strong enough motivator.

 

[venuetech]

Can they rent the cafeteria? Ours is close so they often move the food part of the event over there. Then kitchen access becomes a nightmare.

 

[JJBerman]

At my PAC, we have the same basic rule as you stated in the original post.
We also have many groups that want to cater a full meal and require them to rent the cafeteria for the meal portion of the event.
All our facilities have a clause that the renters are responsible for the costs incurred to clean and restore after their event(s).

Many groups have started to like going to this option because the cafeteria is much cheaper than the PAC. By having the PAC event then meal, we can clean and close the PAC sooner dropping costs down.
My PAC also requires an extra technician as a floater for many events as much of our renters have last minute requests...
All costs are billed to user.

Also what does your fire marshall or ahj have to say about filling the lobby with tables and food? At my PAC we are allowed to put tables against the walls but that is it, giving another option to say no, because it creates a safety/egress hazard.

 

[TheaterEd]

We have several of these events every year as well. They must rent the cafeteria and we charge them to have two custodians on duty throughout their event. They are also already paying for the PAC manager fee and at least one technician fee.

 

[josh88]

I know that fight and you're going about it the way I tried with my space, as a counterpoint for arguments sake, let them do food, but its $1500 more to the cost if they do. Don't scare them away with it but a huge sum of money does a good job of getting what you want across to people, and hey if they somehow say ok, you just make sure whatever your price is offsets the hassle.

There was one group of renters I used to have that I despised working with, they were needy, didnt pay attention to the contract and repeatedly asked for allowances and items that should have been specified in advance. I upped my rate by $15 dollars an hour on a whim assuming I'd just hire it out to someone else to run when they balked at my price. But they liked me enough that they were ok with it and suddenly walking away with $600 more in my pocket than the last time they came, meant I could deal with their hassle.

 

[gafftaper]

Could you force them to rent the cafeteria for serving meals?

That's my standard first step, but unfortunatley it's rarely available for community rentals.

 

[gafftaper]

Thanks for the thoughts... at least I know I'm not alone.

That's my standard first step, but unfortunatley it's rarely available for community rentals.

 

[TheaterEd]

Thanks for the thoughts... at least I know I'm not alone.

I can't tell if you're replying to yourself to signify that you really do feel all alone, or if Tuesday was just a long day at the office

But yeah, I get a call about one of these events about every other week. I'm lucky though in that my school doesn't allow rental for dance recitals, so that takes care of most of them. Still host two to four cultural variety shows with meals per year though...

 

[RonHebbard]

I can't tell if you're replying to yourself to signify that you really do feel all alone, or if Tuesday was just a long day at the office

But yeah, I get a call about one of these events about every other week. I'm lucky though in that my school doesn't allow rental for dance recitals, so that takes care of most of them. Still host two to four cultural variety shows with meals per year though...

@TheaterEd No dance recitals? Tell me they don't rent to body builders and I'm going to be certain you're leading a charmed life.
Toodleoo!
Ron Hebbard.

 

[NickVon]

That is a very well worded rider regarding food. And I'm going to steal it! I sometimes have events that request such "food considerations" and my answer is usually just no. If they go for the better to ask forgiveness then permission route, I instantly keep their security deposit (which for us covers mess and additional time in space for them to clean up.) We try not to bill after the fact for groups that go over allotted time. And then I know for next time after a noting it my records.

Luckily for me my lobby is small for our 300 seat theater, and I would love to have that lobby space you have. (you could have like a whole kick ball game in there) My lobby squeezes about 50 people and that is shoulder to shoulder (NYC Rush Hour subway) kinda of personal space. Because of our space limitations at most we set up a 5'ft table for additional selling of food, etc.

Do you provide tables for catering or do they bring their own? If you indicate that no additional tables can be setup in the lobby beyond "__________________" will that help curb or lessen the hugeness of meal food that happens? Kinda keeping it to Chicken Tenders and Zitti by limiting the amount of tables that are allowed?

You could stipulate menus must be approved by Venue prior to rental contact? (keep messy food items out)

 

[TheaterEd]

@TheaterEd No dance recitals? Tell me they don't rent to body builders and I'm going to be certain you're leading a charmed life.
Toodleoo!
Ron Hebbard.

Definitely no body builders. I'm in a pretty small town and have heard WAY too many horror stories from you all.. Charmed Indeed!!! My last job involved many dress recitals. I do not miss them even a little.

 

[gafftaper]

@RonHebbard I'm guessing @TheaterEd is referring to a private dance recital performance by a young girl that is common in Indian culture called a "arangetram". It's the equivalent of a Bat Mitzvah or Quincanera. We get those requests all the time. In my case we don't rent to private parties so we avoid them.

 

[Charles Heetbrink]

I'm really struggling with my rental policy for food and I thought I would throw this out to the wisdom of CB for advice. My theater seats 415 people and the lobby is about 300 square feet. When I first arrived in this position, groups were allowed to do whatever they wanted and the lobby would be full of catering warming ovens serving FANTASTIC Food, but creating huge messes with food in the lobby, messes from food snuck into the theater, and food debris on the patio. So I have been progressively restricting food further and further. Here's what my rider currently says about food:

Food, Drink, and Candy are not allowed in the Theater. Only bottled water is allowed in the theater, on stage, and in the greenroom. Simple handheld snacks and drinks such as candy, cookies, pastry, juice, and coffee, may be served to your audience in the lobby. You are not allowed to serve a “meal” to your audience. Any food requiring a full size plate and utensils may not be served. You may not serve anything requiring refrigeration or warming equipment. If you have any questions, ask the theater manager for approval about the snack you want to serve. You are allowed to serve food to the cast in the backstage hall way next to the greenroom.

There are some cultures where serving a large meal is an important and expected part of every theater event. Unfortunately for me, there are a lot of people from one of these cultural groups in my area. So at least once a month I have a rental where we struggle with the food issue. I keep re-writing my policy hoping they will get what I want. But, instead these groups are always testing my boundaries trying to find new ways to get me to approve them to provide more food to their audiences.

How do you deal with these things? How do I re-write my policy to be culturally sensitive, yet also get the point across that we don't allow anything but snacks the way I think of them? I would love to hear your thoughts.

Include a large rental deposit if renters want to serve food. The damage deposit becomes non-refundable if extracleanup is required (Make sure it covers the cleanup cost, carpet cleaning, seat cleaning/wipedown, rental revenue loss due to clean-up time, and a little extra to make you feel better.

 

[TheaterEd]

@RonHebbard I'm guessing @TheaterEd is referring to a private dance recital performance by a young girl that is common in Indian culture called a "arangetram". It's the equivalent of a Bat Mitzvah or Quincanera. We get those requests all the time. In my case we don't rent to private parties so we avoid them.

Both actually. A dance recital came through here before I worked here and messed up the floor in their old aud, so they put a blanket ban on all recitals. The policy's are actually up for review right now so I literally just ten minutes ago added dance recitals and body building competitions to the banned user groups list....