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rental question

Discussion in 'Lighting and Electrics' started by Pie4Weebl, Jun 10, 2007.

  1. Pie4Weebl

    Pie4Weebl Well-Known Member Fight Leukemia

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    I know rental prices factor on many many things but I'm still in the very early stages of planning for a gig and I was wondering two things. Which would be cheaper, renting 70 pars, the distro, the dimmer, the cable and truss to hang it all on, plus purchasing gel, or renting 10 s4 pars and cmy scrollers for them?

    Also what sort of ballpark range does rental costs go for those sort of things in IL during the summer? I don't expect a response of "for a week you can expect to pay $1,532.83" but a ballpark area is what I am looking for since I never have rented a full rig before for a show.

    thanks!
     
  2. stantonsound

    stantonsound Active Member

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    These are my prices per week, and pretty standard...

    Par 64's - $7 each
    Truss - $35 per 10' piece
    48 channel dimmer - $450
    Cable, rigging, etc.... $300? (without motors)


    S4 Pars - $12
    Apollo Smartcolor Scrollers (it is what I use) $30
    Powersupply - $45
    Cable - $100?


    The S4 pars option would be MUCH cheaper! (The par cans sure do look cool, though! Very rock and roll!)
     
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2007
    Pie4Weebl likes this.
  3. Charc

    Charc Well-Known Member

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    Out of curiosity, how many Apollo Smartcolor Scrollers can each power supply handle, or when you say "powersupply" do you mean a flat rate for all your power supply needs?

    While I'm at it, are the used S4s you are selling come with yoke, clamp, safety, gel frame. And does that price possibly include shipping? (Hey, can't blame me for trying!)
     
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  4. stantonsound

    stantonsound Active Member

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    There are several models, I am sure that Kelite will give you all the info that you want. The $45 is for the SmartPower 250watt unit that powers up to 8 scrollers. The larger unit, the 400 watt which powers 12, is $80. I would recommend a few of the smaller units (2 units each or 5 units each) to reduce the amt of 4 pin cable that needs to be rented. That cable usually accounts for as much money as the power supply.

    PS. I am a long way from St.Louis and am not soliciting business!!!!!!!
     
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2007
  5. wolf825

    wolf825 Senior Team Emeritus Premium Member

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    Not in IL so I don't know the local prices...you can call up many local rental shops and tell them to A/B you a rate price for each and you will decide from that. Also know--you can get Pre-Rig doublehung truss (12 pars/lamps per 8' stick) fairly low priced these days its so common...and you would only need 5-6 sticks of it to make your 70 lights...or use a couple of lamp bars with just scrollers for even less...

    So--are you saying you really just want/need 7 colors from 10 lights and S4 pars with scrolllers would work for you instead of 70 lights, which I am guessing 10 of each have their own color? Do you need a custom gel string for the scrollers--Cause custom gel strings are expensive and require pre-ordering several weeks ahead of time.... If you have comon colors you need you could find a stock string for scrollers that could work...just another cost factor to consider...

    PARCAN vs S4 pars, the S4's are usually more expensive then a par can would be individually--but add in a scroller and your price increases. Plates for scrollers to fit S4Par or Parcan are usually not a problem for either fixture from most rental shops.. Parlamps are durable more then the HP Lamps--for outdoor weather conditions I would go with a PAr can and Par lamp for moisture and humidity sake.. But--Really this depends on so many factors tho for what you mentioned for which is better and more doable... Power is a factor, rigging and weight issues are a factor...crew and set up/tear down etc or transportation could be a factor..

    Can you give more info on your project--it may help folks help you...cause many folks from all over read controlbooth and you may stumble onto someone who can suggest a good rental shop...

    -w
     
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  6. Jezza

    Jezza Active Member

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    The other thing you have to factor in is the appearance of the rig and what kind of show it is. If you are doing a rock show, the look of big aluminum truss and lots of PAR cans chasing quickly down the stick may be what you are going for. Similarly, if you are doing theater gig and trussing is the only way to rig the instruments, you might want to get the S4s with scrollers for the identical placements for color, look of the instruments, and flexibility.

    Moral of the story--the S4 option would still be cheaper wherever you went. Depeding on the rental house and what kind of dimmers/truss you get, the S4 option could cost anywhere from $400 to $800. The PAR can option would be higher, espciall because of transport as well. You are probably talking close to $1000+ for that kind of setup.

    Tell us more about the event and we will be able to better assist you.
     
  7. stantonsound

    stantonsound Active Member

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    I agree with Jezza about the appearance. For rock style shows, the look of the rig is just important as the light that it gives off. Even with movers and scrollers, I love putting a few parbars across the back. It isn't rock and roll without par cans.
     
  8. avkid

    avkid Not a New User Fight Leukemia

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    Absolutely, and some strobes can't hurt either!
     
  9. gafftaper

    gafftaper Senior Team Senior Team Fight Leukemia

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    Probably the largest theater dealer in the Pacific Northwest, PNTA has part of their rental catalog posted on-line. So it's easy to check prices. Since you are on the other side of the country you aren't going to rent from them, but it might be helpful to set budgets with.

    Just go here.
     
  10. Pie4Weebl

    Pie4Weebl Well-Known Member Fight Leukemia

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    wow that was quite a lot of responses for such a short period of time. The project this would be for is a production of Seussical The Musical in an 900 seat proscenium house. After giving the soundtrack a listen to a few times I got more of a rock and roll vision for the show which would include chasing between fixtures, when thinking about it more I realized that if I went for the S4 par plan I would probably want to double the number of units and scrollers so I could do bumps between sets. My reason for going with pars for the scroller-less rig v. S4 pars for the scroller rig, is that with multiple washs of pars I could use more than one at once so I could make up the difference in punch of not having the pars, and because the difference in quantity the price difference would be dramatic.

    Wolf: yeah the double hung truss was exactly what I was thinking about when my mind was plotting what I wanted as far as look. And my main goal is having access to 7 wash colors. Morpheous M-Faders are what comes to mind first because they have mixing and can do cleaner cross fades as a result, but I will have to look into those cmy washs high end makes along with the fresnel version of sea changers...

    Regardless of which way I would go with that there will still be a few acls mixed into the show as well as a few other specials. I may try and beg/borrow/steal a pair of movers to put into the mix as well. Also I hope to use side light heavily for the production because they theatre doesn't have many good foh positions, so I may look into faders for that section as well.

    The venue I believe has a 400amp disconnect so power isn't a big concern.

    Of coarse all of this planning at the moment is a very tentative fantasy world where the venue has no inventory and the group lets me rent what I want. This may turn out to be a show comprised of old altmans and burned out gels which are distinguished by approximate color.
     
  11. Charc

    Charc Well-Known Member

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    For my edification, would "ACL"s be aircraft landing lights? (I'm reading Gilette's Designing With Light cover to cover, and it was in one of the first chapters.). I was actually thinking about utilizing some of these lights for a shop-made strip-light. Where do you suppose you'd get these lamps?
     
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2007
  12. Pie4Weebl

    Pie4Weebl Well-Known Member Fight Leukemia

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    Well most rental houses have them. Their most common form is where they are put into par 64 bodies and have special 4-fers so they can be used on a normal circuit.
     
  13. stantonsound

    stantonsound Active Member

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    I actually picked up a bunch of lamp bars at an auction that are made for ACL's. You can hang four fixtures on them, but instead of a soca connection, it is just a standard stage pin. (so lamps need to be about 300watts or less to be really useful). They are floating around ebay and the like and are usually really cheap, as ACL's are seldom used anymore. I like ACL's, but more for concerts, especially audience blinders.

    I am planning on hanging LED pars on them, once I find one that I like.
     
  14. Jezza

    Jezza Active Member

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    ACLs are yes, Aircraft Landing Lights. You see them being used for their true purpose on airfields set atop towers point up into the air for aircraft to find the runway more easily. However, they have been adopted for theatrical/concert use because of their standard PAR64 size and unique output/beam characteristics.

    As you probably know, ACLs are low voltage (28v to be precise). 4 must be wired in SERIES to produce 112v, as close to 115v or 120v as possible. The produce a very narrow beam, close to 3 degrees I believe but have tremendous output. A 600w lamp can produce 500,000 candlepower. One of the downsides of ACLs is their lamp life, only about 25 hours. However, they are typically just used for effects or bumps and do not remain on for any serious amount of time so the lamp-life issue doesn't tend to be an issue.

    The lamps themselves, which have screw terminals as opposed to the standard PAR 64 two-prong arrangement (so that you don't inadvertently feed a 28v lamp 120v) can cost up to $45.00 depending on where you purchase them from. I have had great luck on ebay finding them however, $24.95 per lamp. The code for the lamp is GE 4552 (250w) and GE 4559 (600w).

    Typically, they are built into a lightbar that has the fixtures prewired in series so that you can't screw up the wiring. However, this locks you into the "4 instruments in a line" deal that you always see ACLs doing. My personal solution, which I know Altman's rental house employs as well, was to build a "wired in series" 4-fer that allows me to arrange the lamps in any configuration, and any distance, but still have all four being fed the correct amount voltage. If you decide to go this route, be VERY careful to label the ACLs as LOW VOLTAGE. The last thing you want is someone taking one of your ACLs, putting it into a standard voltage outlet, and watching the thing put off fireworks.

    Good luck!
     
  15. Logos

    Logos Well-Known Member

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    It's the really bright blue flash followed by a tinkling sound of broken glass that really makes my day. The occasional small puff of smoke is fun too. And by the way we are 240v here.
     
  16. jonhirsh

    jonhirsh Active Member

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    Whats your email?

    I will send you a recent quote of mine for a similar rig. It was a california rental but prices are the same everywhere.

    JH
     
  17. Kelite

    Kelite Apollo Staff Premium Member

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    <This may turn out to be a show comprised of old altmans and burned out gels which are distinguished by approximate color.>

    Well, let's hope it doesn't come to that!

    Is the venue in the St. Louis area?
     
  18. Pie4Weebl

    Pie4Weebl Well-Known Member Fight Leukemia

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    haha, its looking like its closer and closer to being that. At least thought they told me there is enough money for color, gobos and hazer fluid. According to the director who self admitted to knowing just enough to be dangerous the venue says their system can't handle and more fixtures added in. I am hoping this is just a dimmer issue and if I can borrow some from my old place that will up what I can use. I'm just waiting to hear from the guy in the venue.

    It is not a St. Louis venue. its a show back up in my hometown in the chicago area. Its actually a really pretty venue.
     
  19. Kelite

    Kelite Apollo Staff Premium Member

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    Nice little venue, Victor. I hope you're able to bring in a few 'specials' to compliment the rig.

    Please let us know how this turns out! Pix would be nice too- :)
     
  20. Pie4Weebl

    Pie4Weebl Well-Known Member Fight Leukemia

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    well not more than a min or two after you responded the guy called me. Their rig, which they are very proud of consists of:
    -4 or 5 pars on the balcony rail "which is enought light for anyone"
    -2 electrics of striplights which have 3 colors
    -4 "really bright" real moving lights which are hung right above the bottom edge of the stage.

    The hilarious thing about the place is each "system" uses its own preset board, so I guess I am going to try to borrow a board or get them to rent one.

    The production manager is gonna e-mail me on monday with better specs than this guy could give me, I am keeping my fingers crossed for a 400 amp disconnect.
     

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