Control/Dimming Replace analog relay switch with DMX relay

I was going to suggest an ETC Foundry mini panel, 4 or 8 - 20 amp relays with 0-10 dimming built in, DMX control, and the ability to take dry contact to override or for emergency. Replace contactors, single channel DMX control for dimming and de-powering, all for around $100/circuit for the whole thing.
 
I mentioned the Foundry mini panel to our electrician in the past and he wasn't very excited about it and the panel rewiring it would require. His basic approach was if it's not broken why fix it... He would rather we just find a way to control the existing switch with DMX.
 
It was the seamless 0-10 control that seemed appealing and how easy to integrate the existing wall switch but I understand his views - even if more expensive than the stand alone individual devices.
 
I believe I have read most of the threads about controlling house lights with a DMX relay, but my situation is (I think) a little different than the ones I've seen on here. I'm in a gymnasium type building with several banks of high bay house lights. In my booth, I have an analog switch (actually a timer switch https://www.intermatic.com/en/in-wall-controls/spring-wound-countdown-timers/ff60mc ) connected to a relay that I can use to turn the house lights off (they will turn back on when the timer runs out). From what I can tell this timer is just breaking the "hot" leg of the relay circuit, similar to a basic analog light switch. Rather than having to manually turn this timer switch, I'd like to turn off the house lights via DMX. What kind of DMX relay do I need to open and close the hot leg of an existing analog relay? I have a licensed electrician that can hook this up, but what do I need to communicate to him?
This project is not complicated but generall beyond the scope or knowledge of a fair deal of electricians.
The relays are more than likely a GE or clone that fit in a 1/2” knockout hole
You need a DMX to 0-10 volt converter of however many control channels you desire 2X
Solid state relays again for as many control channels as there are mechanical relays if you desire that ammont of control. They should have an input that can take 10VDC or you need property sized resistors to drop the voltage.
The Solid State Relays SSR’s 2 per mechanical relay can then be wired in the same manner as the momentary switches located in various places and the timer is most likely wired. It’s a latching mechanical relay thus the need for 2 SSR’s one for the on one for off. Using 2 DMX channels.
If this thing is only able to be turned on and off by the timer it the mechanical relays most likely were not wired for latching. Only one SSR and one Dmx channel is needed simply interrupting the mechanical relays low voltage hot.
It’s not the best way but it will work.
The best solution is to have the mechanical relay system replaced by an architectural DMX controlled system made by many of the same companies that make theatrical dimmers. It would also replace the timer currently in use.
Costs are a big thing. The idea I presented can be done for a few hundred dollars and you will only be working in low voltage.
The replacement will be in the thousands less installation
 
Ok, I spoke further with my electrician and got some things clarified. The timer switch I'm wanting to replace with a DMX relay is wired as follows:
Panel (120 v) > timer switch (NC) > spilt to 5 wall switches > each wall switch to a 120v contactor coil. The coils are non-latching. He estimates that the 5 coils would be less than 5amp draw. He's also fairly sure that just the "hot" leg is going to the timer switch and the wall switches, with the neutral going directly from the panel to the contactor coils. So with that information, what relay/contact closure would work best?
 
You want to replace the timer switch with a DMX controlled relay, correct? I thinkk hard to beat the price and ease of an ETC UFR2 - $207.00 at Full Comapss -https://www.etcconnect.com/WorkArea/DownloadAsset.aspx?id=10737493492. Two zones if you want it.

PS: install guide. you do need a neutral at the relay but relay could be located adjacent to contactors. Does not have to be where timer is currently. Installation: https://www.etcconnect.com/WorkArea/DownloadAsset.aspx?id=10737492916
I think the OP wants to replace the switches, not the timer. If the timer is NC, then the UFR2 won't work because it has no NC capability by itself.
That's my interpretation anyway!
 
I want to replace the timer switch that is in my booth (the light switches are by the entrance). I want the entrance light switches to still be functional when nothing is being run from the booth (thus NC). My timer switch basically acts like an override, since it's wired in before the switches.
 
The UFR2 does need a neutral. Not sure that is a show stopper or not. And it would be need to be "parked" on, and turned off for show. Does your console have a parked function?

PS: Maybe too subtle but i did suggest that the relay does not have to be located where the timer switch is. Just wire nut that and put a blank cover on; and locate relay where practical. Can't know that and the pluses and minuses of running DMX without seeing the building.
 
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umm, maybe you want to consider taking out some of that kludgy stuff and start with a blank sheet of paper:

- what functionality do I actually need?

Seems to me that a Fleenor-like DMX architectural preset station connected with the board DMX looped thru it and then a single contactor downstream of it would be way better than spring loaded timers, hidden switches in the lobby, etc.
 
umm, maybe you want to consider taking out some of that kludgy stuff and start with a blank sheet of paper:

- what functionality do I actually need?

Seems to me that a Fleenor-like DMX architectural preset station connected with the board DMX looped thru it and then a single contactor downstream of it would be way better than spring loaded timers, hidden switches in the lobby, etc.
Calling @jfleenor (Again)
Toodleoo!
Ron Hebbard
 
At the end, he just wants to replace a 120 vac normally closed timer switch with a DMX relay, at very low cost.

Dimmed houselights with an entry panel that can be locked out and console control would probably be nicer but thousands of dollars or more if the retrofit LEDs are not dimmable, a likely condition.
 
@BillConnerFASTC , Correct. Just to clarify as this thread has gotten kinda long now, this is for an old-school gym type building at a youth camp, that about 8 months of the year doesn't have DMX controlled anything, but does sessions and theatrical-type productions that are DMX controlled during the summer months. And I actually don't even have a lighting console, per se. We use LightFactory software on a computer with an Entecc DMX USB widget.

The UFR2 is not out of budget, but it not being configurable as NC is a bit of deal-breaker.
 
Well, I'm not sure anyone makes a all in one DMX normally closed relay. You might call ETC and see if there is anything they can do for you. Otherwise I think you are going to have to find a 120vac nc relay and a separate DMX driver and interface them - hobbyist style. I'd recommend an air gap relay since its holding beefy contactors closed when energized.

For a all in one solution with support, you might contact Lite-Trol or Johnson Systems. No real idea but I'd guess an all in one solution - a device or box you just install in place of timer switch - will be in the $500 to 1000 range.

Here is an off beat and unorthodox idea. Use the UFR2 in combination with Automatic Load Control Relay (ALCR) - ETC ALCR-PP. Another $108 in addition to the $207 for the UFR2. The UFR2 controls the normal feed to the ALCR, so when "on" the "emergency" feed is off. Diagram it - pretty sure it works.

I think this could be hard to beat -$315 - and easy and all UL listed. Side benefit - when normal power fails, contactors close.

Isn't there someone here from ETC applications than can comment?
 
So, here is that schematic. The normal sense power and neural (sic - yes - even the folks at ETC commit typos - must be fat fingers and small keys like me) are from the UFR2; the "emergency luminaire" are the contactors. When DMX turns on UFR2 and normal power, the emergency is turned off.

1584978868026.png
 
The UFR2 is not out of budget, but it not being configurable as NC is a bit of deal-breaker.

Although it lacks normally closed contacts in the traditional sense, the UFR2 is configurable to default to full on (i.e. closed) should DMX data go missing, however, according to the documentation. For non-emergency-critical use I think that would pretty well suffice. For emergency egress lighting, I suspect the existing twist-o-matic timer is already contrary to code requirements, so I'm assuming this is just "ordinary" lighting.
 
Although it lacks normally closed contacts in the traditional sense, the UFR2 is configurable to default to full on (i.e. closed) should DMX data go missing, however, according to the documentation. For non-emergency-critical use I think that would pretty well suffice. For emergency egress lighting, I suspect the existing twist-o-matic timer is already contrary to code requirements, so I'm assuming this is just "ordinary" lighting.

Of course! knew there must be a work around. The only hitch here is that connecting and turning on console would perhaps cause relay to have DMX and possibly open contacts and turn lights out until you could use the console to turn the relay on. Does LightFactory software allow parking a non-dim "off" so lights stay on till you want to turn them off? Otherwise good DMX control of the contactors and no problem leaving dormant and consoleless it for 8 months.

Two relatively inexpensive options.
 
Well, I'm not sure anyone makes a all in one DMX normally closed relay. You might call ETC and see if there is anything they can do for you. Otherwise I think you are going to have to find a 120vac nc relay and a separate DMX driver and interface them - hobbyist style. I'd recommend an air gap relay since its holding beefy contactors closed when energized.
I believe I mentioned that Northlight's DMX relays (10 amp) are SPDT dry contact so you can wire whatever to them. True they do not offer the single relay board ready to go in an enclosure.
 

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