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Conventional Fixtures Replacement wiring for fixtures

Discussion in 'Lighting and Electrics' started by Erwin, Jun 4, 2009.

  1. Erwin

    Erwin Member

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    Location:
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    Can any body tell me, in electrician speak, what kind of cables I need to replace some tails on my lights?

    I went to the electrical supply store and described my lights and the cabling and that it needed to withstand high heat. The electrician looked at me with mouth agape and was not help.

    I don't know the proper terms to describe it, can anyone tell me precisely what I need?

    I already asked my Theatrical lighting supplier and the pre-made tails were a silly price.

    Thanks for your help;

    Regards
     
  2. icewolf08

    icewolf08 CBMod CB Mods

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    Occupation:
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    What kind of fixtures are you working on? You may not be able to just replace the tails, as in many fixtures the tails are integral to the porcelain lamp base. On the other hand, the tails that are not integral often have custom parts on the end that connects to the base. Chances are it will be a lot easier to buy complete lamp base assemblies (tails and base) to work on your fixtures. You should be able to get the lamp base assemblies for around $15-$17 each.
     
  3. Erwin

    Erwin Member

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    Thanks for you reply;

    I wouldn't ask if I didn't already know it could replace it. The cables are screwed into the connection terminals in the ceramic base of an assortment of old Fresnel/Par cans that we have.

    As mentioned in my opening post, I've already sourced out the premade assemblies, and they were too expensive. I'll not fix them at all if I must pay the price they were asking.

    Does anyone know what I need to ask an electrical contractor for to get what I need? I can find twist locks, but it's the actual wires and fibreglass tail cover that I need.

    Regards;
     
  4. Amiers

    Amiers Lighting Phoenix 1 Lamp at a Time

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    You'd be best off taking that silly price for a professionally made tail/sheath to keep your wire insulation from burning up or taking down the specs of what they are trying to sell you and looking for it cheaper online.
     
  5. derekleffew

    derekleffew Resident Curmudgeon Senior Team Premium Member

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    Disclaimer: Not a recommendation or endorsement, but an observation of what is commonly used.

    This wire: SF-2 Wire and SEW Cable from Allied Wire and Cable Distributor of High Temperature Wire, or Type SFF2, (or equivalent)
    in this sleeve: Uncoated Fiberglass Sleeving from Allied Wire & Cable - Manufacturer of Fiberglass Sleeving (or equivalent).

    See also http://www.controlbooth.com/forums/collaborative-articles/12561-lighting-fixture-maintenance.html, items 5-12; and this thread: http://www.controlbooth.com/forums/lighting/12035-alternative-fixture-whip.html.
     
    Last edited: Jun 4, 2009
  6. Erwin

    Erwin Member

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    Just what I needed.
    Thanks.
     
  7. church

    church Active Member

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    Erwin

    here in Ontario the easiest place to source the wire you need is to go along to your nearest RONA, Home Deport or Canadian Tire - possibly even Home Hardware. They usually keep fibreglass covered wire that is used in stoves and baseboard heaters and they sell it by the metre. usually they have it in 14 an 16 gauge and they have white and black covered. For the ground you just use the white and go over it with a green permament marker along its entire length - Ontario Electrical code will accept this. Fibre glass sleeving is sometimes available from any theatrical supplier and some of electrical wholesalers. However I normally buy mine from Little Electric here in Cambridge, if you need some call them on 519 621 1300 and ask for Jason or PM me
     
  8. ship

    ship Senior Team Emeritus Premium Member

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    Caution about oven wire - often not stranded properly for a fixture whip. A TGGT type of conductor for instance would be a really poor choice and possibly unsafe to use as a fixture whip.

    Any theatrical supply house should stock what you need be it SF-2 or other. A caution on my part at least in not knowing what to ask for so as to re-wire the fixtures. If you don't know what you need often you also don't have the training to be rewiring such a fixture properly or safely. Stuff like knowing if the ground is sufficient or the insulator pad below the base is in need of replacement if not also the base itself needing replacement or at least resurfacing. Strain relief proper, extra insulation over the heated area, high temperature crimp terminals, proper tool to crimp them and etc. etc. etc. Can't just replace say a corroded screw at times with a store bought one in other types better suited for the heat and there will once you start the project be other things that come up.

    Get someone experienced (check references) in wiring fixtures to supervise and train or send the fixtures in to a theatrical supply for the work to be done for you. Not just as simple of remove a few screws and replace the wiring, life and safety issues in doing so.
     
    Erwin and (deleted member) like this.
  9. church

    church Active Member

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    Hi Ship

    I talked with Erwin offline and the Fresnels he wants to rewire were manufactured by FE Lighting. These fixtures used to be made in Pickering, Ontario. A cost effective, robust fixture that was and is a solid workhorse found in many venues in Ontario. No longer in business due to the death of the owner.

    When new they actually came with a 105 degree centigrade thermoplastic whip with a moulded U ground plug on them. Internal to the fixture the whip was held in a plastic strain relief on the lamp tray and the outer sheathing was stripped to expose the inner insulated conductors which had a fibreglass sheath over each conductor.

    In the early years of manufacture they did not have a CSA approval on them instead they had a Field Inspection label from Ontario Hydro. basically this meant that the manufacturer had the fixtures inspected by the Electrical inspector in batches. In later years they did come with a CSA approval label. They had a number of changes to the whip over the years but the design as originally manufactured and approved by both CSA and Ontario Hydro was only for thermoplastic 105 degree wire with fibreglass sheathing on exposed internal wiring.

    I have rewired a number over the years and implemented what I consider to be improvements on the wiring similar to what you suggest but it requires modifications to the housing.
     
  10. ship

    ship Senior Team Emeritus Premium Member

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    Erwin in past talks with church' at very least you should continue chats with him about what he it would seem has done or recomends but also remember the concept that remote help don't replace eyes on site help in helping you wire these things. Given none of us are there with you and while intent is there trained skill is not be really careful as anything you don't see or note could be problematic still.

    Church's experience with these fixtures is invaluable for help in how to, but get help on site also just to make sure what is advised is properly implemented. A real caution with all of us that know how to but are remote, and the end users gleening some info on-line but without our eyes seeing what they see.
     
  11. panandtilt

    panandtilt Member

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    Single Conductor: Type SMRL
     
  12. derekleffew

    derekleffew Resident Curmudgeon Senior Team Premium Member

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    Did you mean Type SRML (Silicone Rubber Motor Lead) ? Appears that might even exceed the manufacturer's specs.
     
  13. gordonmcleod

    gordonmcleod Active Member

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    Location:
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    When I was with Lumitrol for many years we were the first distributor for FotoEngineering
    The original original one had a SJT lead with fiberglass (the fixture looked like an altman 6")
    The second generation we delt with had a junction box on the side that had the SJT lead butt spliced to a fiberglass jacket Teflon to the socket
    I found over time that from the slide action of the focusing mech that the butt splice would fatigue and break

    Bruce and I used to replace the entire cable with a HiTemp Silicone lead with fiberglass sleaving
    FE also used to make a line of ParCans and soft lights
    There main competitor in canadian manufactured lights was AMPRO
     

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