Conventional Fixtures Replacing ancient Colotran: Used S4 v new S4 Jr?

[Harold]

A school I work with often has just approved ~$3000 to replace the old Berkey Colortrans that they've been using as frontlight for the last couple of decades. My initial instinct was to get Jrs. so that we could get more instruments, but looking into pricing (it's been a few years since I've purchased anything new) I find that I can get used S4 units for only a few dollars more than new Jrs.

These lights provide the general wash for the stage, and as such get used many hours a day for classes in addition to concerts, rehearsals, plays, etc....

I suppose my question is: do the advantages of the full-size S4 units outweigh the existing wear and tear of buying used (from 4Wall at Usedlighting.com)?

Also, I had consulted the Photometric Handbook to look at output for both units as compared to the Colortrans they'd be replacing, and I was surprised to find that the Colortran is supposed to be a brighter light. I assume that the better optics of the S4 make it look brighter than the Colortran, even if it is technically fewer footcandles?

 

[Brentgi]

I can't answer all of your questions, but I can tell you that we've bought several used instruments (including a handful of S4 575's) from 4-wall and have never been disappointed.

 

[NickVon]

My two cents.

NEVER Jr's for a "Real" performance space (Theater) They can be great and simple for a small black box studio where they are a little more discrete/smaller and don't ever change much.

Full sized S4's have the option to be lamped at 750w if needed be, Gobo slots, and swappable Barrels.
My entire inventory from the last 10 years was purchased as Used/reconditioned from 4Wall Entertainment, and I couldn't be Happier. Inventory is about 70 S4's (Pars & Lekos.) Existing wear & tear isn't much of a concern as S4 in practice are very simple beasts and are reconditioned and freshly painted by 4Wall.
And if you call them up, you can probably get a bulk order of used for a better price then advertised on Usedlighting.com individually.

I'm not familiar with the Colortran Units you have but S4 are a staple of the USA!

 

[JD]

If you need general wash for daily lighting and classes, I would also pick you some cheap basic PAR64's, stock them with the industrial 4,000 hour lamps, and put them on a separate channel so they can be used used instead of putting the hours on the S4's and their lamps. For the cost of 2 S4's, you could probably pick up 6 to 8 PARs to do the day-to-day job of just dumping light on the stage. Lamp- https://www.1000bulbs.com/product/68803/GE-43498.html

 

[SteveB]

My two cents.



Full sized S4's have the option to be lamped at 750w if needed be, !

Assuming it's a cap designed for 750, which has the requisite 3rd hole for the extra pin on the 750w lamps

 

[Harold]

I can tell you that we've bought several used instruments (including a handful of S4 575's) from 4-wall and have never been disappointed.

My entire inventory from the last 10 years was purchased as Used/reconditioned from 4Wall Entertainment, and I couldn't be Happier.

Thanks! I suppose my real questions was about the quality of used lights from 4Wall and this makes me think I've got nothing to worry about.

pick you some cheap basic PAR64's, stock them with the industrial 4,000 hour lamps, and put them on a separate channel so they can be used used instead of putting the hours on the S4's and their lamps.

I wish I could. There's this really arcane pre-set system that interfaces with an ETC Unison system, but in such a way that it's impossible to change which circuits are lit up. I might leave a couple of the Colortrans in place and just flip the dimmers off in the rack when we don't need the S4s.

 

[NickVon]

Assuming it's a cap designed for 750, which has the requisite 3rd hole for the extra pin on the 750w lamps

True!
Though I can't imagine 4Wall carries the 575 only version anymore, but worth speccing when you call them.

 

[MRW Lights]

Thanks! I suppose my real questions was about the quality of used lights from 4Wall and this makes me think I've got nothing to worry about.


I wish I could. There's this really arcane pre-set system that interfaces with an ETC Unison system, but in such a way that it's impossible to change which circuits are lit up. I might leave a couple of the Colortrans in place and just flip the dimmers off in the rack when we don't need the S4s.

impossible to change, or you don't have the necessary means to change it? You CAN use S4's as general lighting and in architecture... they MAY have a shorter life and a higher maintenance cost. I would say if you're stuck in this case purchase the used units. If you're not looking for peak performance and expecting to do extra maintenance then I would say to capitalize your investment and get more used units. Really it comes down to how you want to invest the money.

 

[Harold]

impossible to change, or you don't have the necessary means to change it? You CAN use S4's as general lighting and in architecture... they MAY have a shorter life and a higher maintenance cost. I would say if you're stuck in this case purchase the used units. If you're not looking for peak performance and expecting to do extra maintenance then I would say to capitalize your investment and get more used units. Really it comes down to how you want to invest the money.

Impossible for us, at least. I'm sure someone knows how/has the proper interface to change it, but nobody we've been in touch with understands how to make it work. Next time I'm physically in the theatre I'll make another effort to figure it out.

 

[techieman33]

My two cents.

NEVER Jr's for a "Real" performance space (Theater) They can be great and simple for a small black box studio where they are a little more discrete/smaller and don't ever change much.

Full sized S4's have the option to be lamped at 750w if needed be, Gobo slots, and swappable Barrels.
My entire inventory from the last 10 years was purchased as Used/reconditioned from 4Wall Entertainment, and I couldn't be Happier. Inventory is about 70 S4's (Pars & Lekos.) Existing wear & tear isn't much of a concern as S4 in practice are very simple beasts and are reconditioned and freshly painted by 4Wall.
And if you call them up, you can probably get a bulk order of used for a better price then advertised on Usedlighting.com individually.

I'm not familiar with the Colortran Units you have but S4 are a staple of the USA!

Jr's have gobo slots, accessory slots, and you can swap the lenses. The lenses are only available in 26, 36, and 50 though.

 

[Brentgi]

Thanks! I suppose my real questions was about the quality of used lights from 4Wall and this makes me think I've got nothing to worry about.

All of their used inventory comes from rental gear that has been maintained. I've gotten S4s from them that I couldn't really tell were used.

Though I can't imagine 4Wall carries the 575 only version anymore, but worth speccing when you call them.

I think they may be sold out of the 575s (or at least that's what the website says). I bought some just a few weeks ago for the sole purpose of retro fitting them with the S4wrd, so I know that they once had stock. 750s are the way to go otherwise, IMO.

 

[JohnD]

Something to check on, is the school allowed to buy used?

 

[BillConnerFASTC]

The 115 volt lamp looks brighter than the 120 volt lamp, and the compact filament among other things also makes it more efficient. If they are the Colortran 213 series - with moveable lenses and donuts - they are brighter if a step up in wattage. Those were some of the most efficient ERSs ever made or at least till S4.

It would be interesting to see both with 750s but each at it's respective voltage. Probably not too different.

Get the full S4 - don't mess with the Jrs.

 

[Brentgi]

Something to check on, is the school allowed to buy used?

My curiosity is piqued. That's a thing? Schools can be restricted from buying used? Why so?

 

[RonHebbard]

Jr's have gobo slots, accessory slots, and you can swap the lenses. The lenses are only available in 26, 36, and 50 though.

@techieman33 And Junior Zooms which are really quite lovely.
Toodleoo!
Ron Hebbard.

 

[Silicon_Knight]

My curiosity is piqued. That's a thing? Schools can be restricted from buying used? Why so?

I would suspect that it would have to do with public money being spent wisely (at least for public schools). Although I've had quite good experiences with used gear (along with many people in this forum), it does require buying good quality brands/models from reputable sources by a (somewhat) knowledgeable person.

Someone who is less knowledgeable (more common in a public schools - where theater programs are a secondary concern and may not have full-time, experience personnel maintaining the facilities), might end up with gear that is worn out, costly to repair, or even potentially dangerous.

 

[JohnD]

My curiosity is piqued. That's a thing? Schools can be restricted from buying used? Why so?

It varies from state to state. If there is tax payer funding involved there are restrictions on how funds are spent. Might require competitive bidding. School boards also have their own restrictions, which can include approved vendors. There are also restrictions on what can be done with the replaced fixtures.

 

[techieman33]

@techieman33 And Junior Zooms which are really quite lovely.
Toodleoo!
Ron Hebbard.

I really like the zooms. They're my weapon of choice for side booms. They're a lot less likely to catch dancers and their costumes.

 

[Brentgi]

There are also restrictions on what can be done with the replaced fixtures.

You mean we can't just throw them off of the roof?

 

[techieman33]

You mean we can't just throw them off of the roof?

Nope, they're most likely property of the school district. So it will be up to them to decide if you can throw them away, give them to another school in the district, put them into storage somewhere, or try to sell them.