Replacing borders with no fullness?

My preference is to have drapes with fullness. I like the look and it softens the edges of the picture frame you are showing your story in. That said, everyone has their looks they like. Send me a note if you would like some pricing.

BTW- if you use 20 or 25 OZ IFR velour, you should not need lining. The quick and dirty is that flat is cheaper finished height and width being the same. 20 OZ is cheaper. We have made a fair amount of drapery with grommets on 6" and 12" centers for people to tie in fullness when they want it. Keep in mind that a drape that is finished 50' wide with 50% fullness takes just as much fabric as drapery that is 75' wide, sewn flat and has grommets 6 and 12" OC to tie in your fullness. Or a 50' and a 27' flat piece to give you the option. Most sewing rooms charge by the width so the 50' wide piece with 50% fullness and the 75' flat piece will be the same or similar price.

Also, I point out that it's nice to have all of the options in the world. Changing from one to the other is time. Most places put their drapery up once and leave it.
 
Got news for ya Mate, it doesn't.
A flat curtain takes a 1/4 of the time to produce than a 50% full curtain. Labor, as always, is the most expensive line item on any job. Most flat curtains that are supplied are made 50% longer to accommodate tying in fullness so there is no cost savings on material.

Just to be sure I understand, a 10' wide curtain sewn with pleats and 50% additional fabric for fullness will cost more than a 15' wide curtain sewn flat, and presumably with double the number of grommets.

Without the extra grommets, there is a problem if the curtains are on tracks for adjusting trim.

I should compare sewn flat with nap down to fullness with nap up and see which disappears more and looks blacker.
 
Just to be sure I understand, a 10' wide curtain sewn with pleats and 50% additional fabric for fullness will cost more than a 15' wide curtain sewn flat, and presumably with double the number of grommets.

Without the extra grommets, there is a problem if the curtains are on tracks for adjusting trim.

I should compare sewn flat with nap down to fullness with nap up and see which disappears more and looks blacker.
Let me know when and how. I'll see if we can make that happen. Just not for the next couple of months.
 
I agree that 24 ounce IFR - like KM Charisma - is fine without lining for bleed through. 20 ounce is close and probably good enough for the venues that select it for the cost savings.
 
The soft look of fullness and lesser total light reflected is a nice idea, but I'm never impressed with it in person. As a visual design element that's trying to disappear, the curtain with fullness has two flaws.

First, there is the pattern of the pleats drawing attention. The fullness may reflect less light, but what light it does reflect is patterned as opposed to the more neutral plane of flat sewn. Under usual conditions we're not talking about a ton of reflected light here. The lines from the pleats can easily become the dominant visual element rather than sheer brightness.

Second and related, in common application there may be a cyc or other lighter/lit backdrop that gets framed on its top edge by a border. In less than ideal conditions it may be lit from downstage and above that border such that shadows are created. The shadows may be multi-colored from multi-cell color mixing fixtures. Regardless, the fullness is far from a neutral soft edge. It asserts itself in ways that may not be desirable, unless the goal is to show everyone your curtains, and all the discrete gel colors spilling from nearby like the selvage of your favorite print.

So again, it is a matter of preference but I'd advise that unless you want to draw attention to the goods and what's nearby, flat is more likely to be more successful. Masking shouldn't have interesting detail. Decorative curtains are a different story of course.
 
Something I think wasn't mentioned here is scenery bumpers on electrics when you hang something oddly shaped and have to page the border out of the way.
This was always more common in theatres that are deadhung with borders directly downstage of the electric. With everything hung straight, there's no issue but adding a moving light or practical effect that needs space between the border means without fullness, it's incredibly obvious it's not flat.
I'm always a proponent of 50% fullness borders because they might be seen in one show and not in the next. You never know.

The only place I've seen flat borders is schools. And they're usually cheap lining, not even velour. And boy do they look cheap. Also they have legs that stop 6" from the deck to prevent rips.
 
IMO, as soon as you add fullness to drapes, they become scenery. Personally, I want masking to visually disappear, not become part of the stage picture.
You bring in an interesting distinction. Given that few facilities can afford 2 sets, a choice must be made.

For me minor masking hardly matters, as long as the rest of the show is OK. ;) I go for a better look when it's needed, when most of the stage is drapery, and not worry about the rest. Yes, this is a major factor for smaller, lower level schools.
 
in my experience working and touring professionally, flat drapes are by far preferred. I have never had a professional company ask for fullness. It tends to catch light rather than lessen it. It takes up more floor space; if scenery is flying or tracking on and off stage there is more of a chance to run into the legs. The same is true for dancers. Should someone request a good with fullness just tie it closer together.
 
I think the empty or bare stage events - not dance but "acts" and scenes and meetings and speakers - probably do look better with fullness. High school stages seem to be used for those events a lot.

And lets not forget tieing in fullness with flat goods generally implies a fly system. Not so easy when dead hung and all work off a scaffold or lift - which the high school probably hasn't bought.
 
I think the conversation of "scenery" vs "masking" where the building is multi use is a convoluted conversation.

In the community/regional/semi-pro theatre that I've worked in, trim heights depends on the set and drops. Are they rented or built for us? Is the lighting designed to be visible? Did the choreographer know the venue measurements before rehearsals started and legs need to be pulled in our out 6' because someone "thought" the stage was X feet wide.
The space was also used quite often for events strictly because it had alot of seats. Borders were flown and legs tied in as far as possible to make an "intimate" black box. That would've looked rather chinchy if they were flat.

For much of my career, there were a small handful of actual theatres I worked in and all of the above variables changed with every show. In those cases, their purchased soft goods always had fullness. If someone wanted flat borders, they rented or dealt with it or flew painted beveled flats.
 
This facility was 3 stages with only one having rigging. But there was staff that would adjust trims with a lift based on the program.
 
In my local PAC we have 4 performance spaces. The primary theater/concert (2200 cap) hall has flat borders and legs. Leg goods are wide enough that we can tie in some fullness (more as we go upstage) but borders were cut for flat hang; 37 manual line sets, 3 motorized electrics. The convention hall stage has flat borders and the same size legs as the concert hall so we can tie in fullness if desired. The small theater (600ish cap) has no fly system but has a grid on motorized winches; the soft goods (except the main rag) are under hung from the grid, and their trim is adjustable over a 3 or 4 ft range. Borders are flat and legs 2 & 3 are actually full stage travelers. The 4th stage has no masking of any kind except for the main rag and teaser.

Almost all the velours are nap-up. Back when the venue was between TDs some goods were purchased without specifying nap orientation. At one point there was some discussion about sending them to a sewing shop and sacrificing 12 - 16 inches of height to re-web and hem them so knap would be up but I don't know what was done. My time with soft goods is usually working strip/restore calls for road shows so I'm mostly tying or folding. And yes, theaters are dirty, dusty places...
 

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