Rigging Question (Tieing off a line set)

[MPowers]

Along the same line as "tools" Tiffin has a product that "locks" the line set when it detects more than 50# out of balance. Clancy and Tiffin have rope locks rated for 1,000# or more out of ballance. The infamous 'Unkle Buddy", twisted bar tie-offs and just plain rigging technique such as prussics etc. are some of the many ways to solve the problem.

 

[gafftaper]

How would you justify the need for this tool?

Here's a good example for your justification. I believe in the end we learned that they had twisted a broom handle into the lines (another old trick) and the broom handle snapped from the weight.

 

[MNicolai]

Here's a good example for your justification. I believe in the end we learned that they had twisted a broom handle into the lines (another old trick) and the broom handle snapped from the weight.

As with most catastrophic failures though, they had done more than a couple things wrong before the failure occurred.

Nothing makes up for inexperience and a lack of expertise.

 

[gafftaper]

Very true Mike. The world's best engineers can't design a rope locking mechanism that can defeat a blatant disregard for following standard safety protocols.

 

[wiscolighting]

I have used similar tools and they are very handy... many are custom made... I have also seen people think that they are reasons to stop watching the counter weight line and have either added or taken weight off the pipe causing the line to start moving on its own... they are nice tools but no excuse to not keep an eye on the rope and have someone standing right there hands on in case...

 

[msaunier]

Thanks everyone for the info.

I think that since you have mentioned problems with other existing tools we will approach it as an innovative project to try and make it easier for people.

(Also, don't give me idea's on how to solve it and make a different tool because in the grading that is considered cheating) I know you guys have a lot of great ideas and after I am finished I will post what we did for you guys to look at and make comments.

I may ask what you "prefer" as far as handling and size of the tool along the way.

Thanks again everyone! (feel free for more justification, never enough of that!)

 

[tyler.martin]

a new venue that I was recently visiting had some Petzl rope grabs and some lanyards with rated points on the fly rail to connect to out of balance lines. I don't know if I like that idea.

 

[blackisthenewblack]

Just use a chain motor to the top of the arbor. A couple of local venues use it to aid in the lifting of awkward loads such as flats that must be loaded on the ground, etc. They have an I-beam clamp with a beam clamp installed in an engineered way, so that they can use the motor on any line set.

 

[wiscolighting]

Just use a chain motor to the top of the arbor. A couple of local venues use it to aid in the lifting of awkward loads such as flats that must be loaded on the ground, etc. They have an I-beam clamp with a beam clamp installed in an engineered way, so that they can use the motor on any line set.

I have used that same type of set up... it really nice when you know you are going to have a ton of people trying to pull the load out to just use a winch. You seem to be talking about attaching to the top of the arbor... I have seen a system that had a pulley that could be put anywhere on the counterweight rail under a arbor and then a winch cable run under to the bottom of the rail to the arbor through the pulley kind of sounds like a reverse of what you are talking about just this version was on the deck as opposed to yours which sounds like it was at an arboring station or in a grid. That correct?

 

[chausman]

Just use a chain motor to the top of the arbor. A couple of local venues use it to aid in the lifting of awkward loads such as flats that must be loaded on the ground, etc. They have an I-beam clamp with a beam clamp installed in an engineered way, so that they can use the motor on any line set.

Of course this isn't really an option for those of us with little to no budget or power for a chain motor. And, in some venues (like ours) we don't have the infrastructure to safely attach or use a chain motor safely, repeatedly.

 

[blackisthenewblack]

I have used that same type of set up... I have seen a system that had a pulley that could be put anywhere on the counterweight rail under a arbor and then a winch cable run under to the bottom of the rail to the arbor through the pulley kind of sounds like a reverse of what you are talking about just this version was on the deck as opposed to yours which sounds like it was at an arboring station or in a grid. That correct?

I Beam - in Grid
2 ton Motor from I beam to top of arbor. They currently have the Brickhouse arbors (which are awesome). The arbor has a eye bolt - I believe it is just what the purchase line connects to. Motor goes to the eye bolt and easy-peasy.

I suppose you could use a chain fall or block and tackle as need be Chase.

 

[Footer]

I Beam - in Grid
2 ton Motor from I beam to top of arbor. They currently have the Brickhouse arbors (which are awesome). The arbor has a eye bolt - I believe it is just what the purchase line connects to. Motor goes to the eye bolt and easy-peasy.

I suppose you could use a chain fall or block and tackle as need be Chase.

So, they load weight first, haul the arbor out, attach the load, then lower the arbor back in? Most systems I have seen of this nature involve bringing the pipe in, attaching the load, take the pipe out via the motor attached to the arbor, then weight is added to the arbor until the chain slacks. The only issue I have with the system you described is it is possible to underload an arbor and get an arbor stuck in the air.

Also, they do make 120v single phase hoists.

 

[tyler.martin]

When we pull arbours with a chain motor, we do it due to crew limits, We have a 1.5 ton variable speed motor running off of our FOH motor distro, and we load the lineset in balance, we even have sheets of 1 inch ply laminated in stacks to fine tune the weight. in our current show we are doing this, but the load gets transferred from the system pipe to the set and the lineset becomes very arbour heavy.

 

[blackisthenewblack]

Footer
Your method is correct (because me trying to explain rigging over the internet always works). Sorry for the confusion. I should have said that when they load things like curtains, or flats that lay flat prior to flying. They load the item on the pipe, then chain the arbor and load it with weight. Once the calculated weight is reached, they lower the chain which is holding a bunch of weight, until the set piece is in the air and the load is balanced.

 

[msaunier]

View attachment 7786

It's called an Uncle Buddy or more officially a "Line-Lok" and it's use is controversial, some people swear by it, some people swear AT it.

Can you go into detail of why it is controversial? Is it the design? Ease of use?

 

[Footer]

Can you go into detail of why it is controversial? Is it the design? Ease of use?

No, its when they catastrophicly break people can get killed. This problem is kind of the build a better mousetrap thing. Really, nothing beats a piece of rope and a proper knot.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

 

[msaunier]

Another thing that my partner and I were curious about is if any theatres have secondary locks on their line sets? For example something that is on the floor that would do the same thing as the primary lock.

 

[dramatech]

I worked in a theatre for a summer that had locks at the floor level and at the flyrail. During quick changes the floor guy would take the sets out and the flyman at the rail would bring them in. It took some coordination, but the show was 5 times a day on weekdays and 8 times a day on weekends, with two crews and casts on weekends. As you might have guessed, it was in a theme park.

 

[DuckJordan]

Another thing that my partner and I were curious about is if any theatres have secondary locks on their line sets? For example something that is on the floor that would do the same thing as the primary lock.

actually we are thinking of installing a second set at our mid bridge level, for use during shows. Allows the fly men to see over set pieces being stored in the wing and still give them a lock where they are at.

 

[techieman33]

actually we are thinking of installing a second set at our mid bridge level, for use during shows. Allows the fly men to see over set pieces being stored in the wing and still give them a lock where they are at.

A theater in my area has rope locks at the mid rail, they are almost never used though.