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Safety Covers on 60-100A Stage Pin Outlets

Discussion in 'Lighting and Electrics' started by ship, Nov 13, 2008.

  1. ship

    ship Senior Team Emeritus Premium Member

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    So I find myself making a 100a/208v power supply that while not in use will function for a dual 45A/125v power supply.

    IN installing the panel mount outlets for this I was also searching for covers for the receptacles. Believe in the NEC I remember some requirement for coving all holes over 1/4" in dia. and both are. These as opposed to Soco and CamLoc type snap covers don't seem to have any covers and I had to modify some GFCI covers to do the trick.

    Curious in realizing most don't deal with stage pin in this size, thoughts on why there wouldn't be protective covers for such things.
     

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  2. TimMiller

    TimMiller Well-Known Member

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    i have never seen covers for them. I think part of the cover thing is that its not likely that the plug would be energized unless its being used, and if it is used, then the pins would not be exposed. They do set the pins back a little to keep people from sticking their fingers into them, though you would have to be pretty stupid to stick you finger into a 100A receptacle.
     
  3. SteveB

    SteveB Well-Known Member

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    If you would Mr. Miller, please tell the jury if you think the scenario could exist where Person A could accidentally energize the circuit and with no indicator light, not realize the circuit was energized, while Person B, say a 5 year old child, could - not realizing the "hole" was electrical in nature, stick 2 tiny fingers into the holes and kill themselves - WHICH IS EXACTLY WHAT HAPPENED !.

    Sorry, was watching Law and Order last night.

    SB
     
  4. TimMiller

    TimMiller Well-Known Member

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    lol. The stage is not a place for unsupervised children. I know when circuiting, and patching there are usually a few extra dimmers that get thrown in that are not actually connected to anything, so the potential for it being energized is there. Thats one thing i don't like about cam, it has a nice big hole for you to accidentally stick your finger in when grabbing the connections. Even though you are not supposed to connect or disconnect cam hot. I personally think the big 50 & 100A plugs are kinda freaky, especially when people break them out to 20 A circuits with absolutely no over current protection.
     
  5. Sony

    Sony Active Member

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    What the stage is meant for and what actually goes on are two different things. I'm sorry, but when working at the High School we often have casts of 50 kids or more and their families. I cannot watch over everyone's children and a lot of parents are just plain negligent about what their kids are doing. It's always better to be safe then sorry. We do have Cam-lok connectors on our stage which are turned off at the breaker 99% of the time and we do have a cover that closes over them that can be locked but all it takes is that one time where the cover is left open and the contacts are energized for someone to get hurt.

    What if a stagehand were to carelessly grab the energized box to move it and one of their fingers accidentally goes in the hole? I could probably fit my pinkie in that 100A plug. All it takes is one accident to get the building inspector to come in and start pointing out NEC regulations and handing out fines and possibly shutting you down.
     
  6. SteveB

    SteveB Well-Known Member

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    Unless it's Miss Bonnies Dance Recital, whose rug rats are - in theory, supervised. We had a kid hurt last spring when they were climbing all over a stack of 8-12 ft. A frame ladders, on an adjacent stage whose lights were off. The door wasn't locked as the front-of-house staff go thru the theater to access the main office. No parents were nearby or supervising, but then again, there were probably 200-300 kids in this 5 hr. recital.

    And I was just kidding about the testimony to a jury, but I have never liked the 60 and 100 amp 2P&G receptacles, for the reason of easy access to the copper. I prefer assorted Hubble twist versions.

    Had a film shoot this past Monday, that used a few illegal breakouts from 60 amp 2P&G to 10 amp, with no OCD's.

    Steve B.
     
  7. elite1trek

    elite1trek Active Member

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    All it takes is one accident like that to kill somebody.

    I would like to remind everybody that while a stage is not place for unsupervised children, there are occasionally actors there (there is a slight difference). This being said, I cover everything, at all times, period. I had custom male stagepins made with plastic pins and a fully plastic housing, and plastic screws, and I tape these into all open females, whether they are hot or not. Every floor pocket, every boom, every electric, every position, period.

    Now...I may be just a little too paranoid, but I had a bad experience with a screw and a stagepin connector in college...:neutral::oops::neutral:

    The covers you made are awesome. I never have to deal with the 100a connectors, but if I ever do I know how I am going to cover them.
     
  8. derekleffew

    derekleffew Resident Curmudgeon Senior Team Premium Member

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    I bet you also have these in every outlet in your house and theatre, don't you?
    [​IMG]

    Some would argue that interfering with natural selection is detrimental to the advancement of a society.:twisted: One of my favorites.
     
  9. sk8rsdad

    sk8rsdad Well-Known Member Premium Member Fight Leukemia

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    Nope. We have these in all the public spaces in the theatre.

    [​IMG]
     
  10. avkid

    avkid Not a New User Fight Leukemia

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    How is a NEMA 5-20R tamper proof?
     
  11. sk8rsdad

    sk8rsdad Well-Known Member Premium Member Fight Leukemia

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    There's an internal plastic tab that guards the hot, and I think neutral. Inserting the ground pin pushes the tab out of the way allowing the hot and neutral to make contact.
     
  12. derekleffew

    derekleffew Resident Curmudgeon Senior Team Premium Member

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    That explanation indicates it would not power an ungrounded polarized plug, or a non-grounded, non-polarized plug as on something double-insulated.

    Make something idiot-proof, and they're bound to produce a better idiot!:)
     
  13. elite1trek

    elite1trek Active Member

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    I do indeed, but the house manager screwed covers over all the outlets in the house and lobby for one production. She was sick of people charging their cell phones. Nobody has taken them off since.


    As for natural selection, I'm all for that. :twisted: I'm just not so hot on lawsuits, inspectors, coroners, and electricity surging through peoples bodies in an attempt to get to ground as fast as possible.
     
  14. sk8rsdad

    sk8rsdad Well-Known Member Premium Member Fight Leukemia

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    OK. After 15 seconds at leviton.com I discovered that an interlock that requires you to insert into both the neutral and hot simultaneously, oh pedantic one. The principle is the same and answered the poster's question.

    Before you quibble about 20 amp receptacles, we have the 15 amp version but I couldn't find a picture.
     
  15. TimMiller

    TimMiller Well-Known Member

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    There isnt anything wrong with 20A receptacles, i perfer them along with 20A breakers.
     
  16. tomed101

    tomed101 Active Member

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    In our floor pockets on stage, the outlets have the active-neutral interlock and a switch that doesn't apply power to the outlet until the plug is fully inserted. The idea behind that is if someone is mopping the stage and water gets into the outlet it won't short.
     
  17. ship

    ship Senior Team Emeritus Premium Member

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    Asked the sales rep at Advanced Devices/Marinco about such a thing, nope nadda on the market such a 60A/100A cover and never considered such a thing.

    Given Darwin and or "professional handeling" still every piece of gear these days has that 1/4" hole rule (including PAR can's on paper at least) so far as I can tell. Thinking these stage pin plugs are more for the movie/studio industry and with that less exposure to accidental mis-use/contact so the question has never come up or been considered before. After all, one should see the wiring on some of the 5 & 10K Fresnels I see coming from the studios - it's arcane. So with that I'm thinking its more oversite in their industry much less lack of GFCI protection in general.

    Still in a more modern world, I would think such a cover would be proper at very least for the panel mount connectors where it was fairly easy to cover. Found it fascinating that something such as that doesn't seem to exist.
     
  18. derekleffew

    derekleffew Resident Curmudgeon Senior Team Premium Member

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    Perhaps right after they decree that every luminaire must have a lamp-access safety interlock (ala Selecon) for the fools too stupid or lazy to UNPLUG a fixture before relamping.

    You're too young to remember this, but E1016 Cam-Loks were almost made illegal a while back. If not for the industry professionals on Panel 15 who inserted the "for use by Qualified Personnel Only" language, we'd be forced to use the more expensive, more complicated, and more error prone Posi-Loks now.
     
  19. TimMiller

    TimMiller Well-Known Member

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    Also ALWAYS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Disconnect feeder starting with the hot legs and then neutral and ground. I was once doing a show and went to disconnect my feeder, the electrican told me to disconnect the feeder and that it was off, i shut off the lighting disconnect myself, but i ended up disconnecting the audio guys. They were not happy that parts of their system started shutting off. But imagine how bad it would of been if i disconnected the ground and neutral first. You just never know what someone may do, such as move your feeder around, while you are not around. I remember the whole cam-lok mess, i am happy that never went through.
     
  20. ship

    ship Senior Team Emeritus Premium Member

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    Agreed on the why not, and also in seeing more and more gear go Euro in plug these days no doubt in part from it and in seeing the skills of those using the gear as a still valid thing to consider.

    Still not persay saying that it should be code or yea, should be, more just wondering why if there is snap lock covers for Cam's and Soco these days why nobody did so for the large stage pins persay. (Not that they are stage pins or slip persay or 2P&G.)
     

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