Safety line across proscenium

DGotlieb

Active Member
I want to install a rope across our proscenium during non show times. I'm not sure how I can anchor it.
Can I install an eyebolt into the smoke pocket of my fire curtain if it doesn't interfere with the travel of the curtain? (not that i'l looking forward to drilling through that metal plate)
Is there some guide line to size or style of rope for this?

Any advice anyone has who has installed something like this?
 
A tennis net has been used, since it can come with a tensioning device. Incord makes a specific product for this. I find it needs to be anchored 4' or more do it's still 42" at low point.

I think anchoring to smoke pocket is fine. Maybe just a hole near edge for a hook rather than add an eye. Hard to know options without having seen the particulars.
 
I want to install a rope across our proscenium during non show times. I'm not sure how I can anchor it.
Can I install an eyebolt into the smoke pocket of my fire curtain if it doesn't interfere with the travel of the curtain? (not that i'l looking forward to drilling through that metal plate)
Is there some guide line to size or style of rope for this?

Any advice anyone has who has installed something like this?
Calling: @egilson1 @What Rigger? @derekleffew and another who I can't recall at the moment.
Toodleoo!
Ron Hebbard
 
Some of our installations have require Stanchions to meet a given code. I would hope you could either do as Bill said above or go into the material on the opening itself. If you do a hole in the smoke vent I would definitely want a cap nut on the inside of the pocket OR surface weld a Pad-eye on the outside of the pocket, depending on how your Pro is set up. Or install a brass insert to the outside of the pro so you could install a stage screw or Screw eye to clip into.
 
I’d avoid the smoke pocket. The curtain has to operate at all times and anything that might potentially interfere, will.

I’ve got a solution thought. Why not close your fire curtain. It’s code complaint and does a great job of keeping people from walking off the stage! And it’s free to install!

Ethan
 
I’d avoid the smoke pocket. The curtain has to operate at all times and anything that might potentially interfere, will.

I’ve got a solution though. Why not close your fire curtain. It’s code compliant and does a great job of keeping people from walking off the stage! And it’s free to install!

Ethan
@DGotlieb Plus it would regularly "exercise" your Fire Curtain perhaps staving off Alzheimer's, senility and keeping it practiced and in good form.
Toodleoo!
Ron Hebbard
 
pulling out the fire curtain is hard to do as a solo job (holding the weight and realigning the quick release pin and pully) and can't be done by the kids who run most of our shows. I run a children's theatre were I train my crew of 8-16year olds to do everything. A rope or net they could set up, fire curtain I would always have to do it instead of just supervise.

My pro opening is only 24' wide so I wonder if I need Stanchions. I'm sure there is some code I should be following here in the SF bay area but not sure where to reference. As far as I know no one has done anything in the 87 years the theatre has been open I figure it's never to late to start.
 
here is a quick rough drafting of the smoke pocket
large c channel (red) attached to a big steel plate (green) containing a track (blue) for the curtain (yellow)
the channel and plate are held together with bolts (orange)
looking at it agian I feel like I can maybe just pull one of the bolts at about 3'-6" or 4'-0" and replace it with an eye bolt with out compromising any of the smoke pocket, instead of making a new hole. I just want to make sure it's OK to do that
1579909230243.png
 
Since the fire curtain is required to be closed when not in a production or rehearsal, that may need attention. Motorizing it would be a great solution.

But the idea of replacing one if the bolts with an eye bolt or eye nut seems fine.
 
pulling out the fire curtain is hard to do as a solo job (holding the weight and realigning the quick release pin and pully) and can't be done by the kids who run most of our shows. I run a children's theatre were I train my crew of 8-16year olds to do everything. A rope or net they could set up, fire curtain I would always have to do it instead of just supervise.

My pro opening is only 24' wide so I wonder if I need Stanchions. I'm sure there is some code I should be following here in the SF bay area but not sure where to reference. As far as I know no one has done anything in the 87 years the theatre has been open I figure it's never to late to start.
@DGotlieb You're correct; it's NEVER to late to start.
How about two or three of your stouter students learning to haul your fire curtain up together while one of the ten year olds aligns the release mechanism and re-inserts the pin; a co-operative team effort.
Toodleoo!
Ron Hebbard
 
If I can ask, DG .. what's your theater company and facility? We are at least regional neighbors!
 
@BillConnerFASTC my understanding (which is likely incorrect) is because my fly loft is only 26' high my fire curtain isn't even required, but seems way more work to remove then to just leave it.
also I think there may be 2 weeks a year where we are neither in performance or rehearsal....
Right. By the national model codes not required under 50' in new construction in most jurisdictions. So, you could remove it if otherwise everything else is up to new standards.

But assuming it was required the requirement intends for instance you close it at night? Or are you either rehearsing or in a show 24/7?
 
Oh I see I thought it meant like if you were dark for more then a day. I can't say that I have ever worked in a place that ever put the fire down more then occasional testing so didn't realize it should be like that.
 
... so didn't realize it should be like that.
Most people don't know. Even if they do know, they still don't follow the practice. https://www.controlbooth.com/threads/poll-operation-of-fire-curtain.12159/

Why a rope at the plaster line? If to protect against stage edge, perhaps something from this thread https://www.controlbooth.com/threads/stage-edge-safety.9317/ .
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my understanding (which is likely incorrect) is because my fly loft is only 26' high my fire curtain isn't even required, but seems way more work to remove then to just leave it.
Whether its existence is required or not, my thinking is that IF you have one, it must be used according to code, which means closed unless the space is in active use.

Along the same lines of ... if your car is older than 1968 and didn't come with seat belts, you can't get a "click-it or tick-it" ticket. But if it does have seat belts, regardless of age, you better "buckle up."
 
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I’d avoid the smoke pocket. The curtain has to operate at all times and anything that might potentially interfere, will.

I’ve got a solution thought. Why not close your fire curtain. It’s code complaint and does a great job of keeping people from walking off the stage! And it’s free to install!

Ethan
I'm thinking fire curtain is the way to go. Here's a few other things to be wary of:
If you start installing a line, then you get into the question of whether this is attempting to be a passive fall prevention system (similar to handrails on stairs), so in that case this system must be engineered, and approved in a legal/compliance fashion. Simply slamming inserts and eyebolts into the plaster line won't cut it and could open you up to liability.
Is it a demarkation line to keep someone from encroaching within 6 feet of an unprotected edge over 31" tall (or maybe it's 4 ft in your area)? There are still compliance issues that have to go through the oversight of some sort of AHJ. Again, there could be liability issues.
And then there's just the whole pain of trying to get said AHJ to grasp the idea that this is a stage and that makes things weird for a lot of code stuff.
You're a city owned venue, yes? Do you have a connection you could bounce this off of that would be able to give more "hands on" advice?
 
If you do go with a cable or net, and otherwise open, there are a lot more things you can do than you can without opening the fire curtain. Focus lights, building scenery close to curtain line, etc.

I'd prefer there was any warning or barrier no matter how flimsy more of the time. And I emphasize again the training. Make a plan to tell anyone that comes o stage that this is like no other place in the built environment and that there are unguarded fall hazards.

The Life Safety Code tries to present a reasonable requirement allowing a lot of flexibility:

"Where a guard is ordinarily required but not provided in accordance with 12.2.11.1.6 exceptions (1) and (2), a written plan shall be developed and maintained to mitigate the fall hazards of unguarded raised floor areas and vertical openings on stages."

And the appendix note:

"The written plan should identify the unguarded areas and should include precautions and provisions to mitigate the fall hazard. Such precautions and provisions may include:

Training
Choreography
Rehearsal
Restricted access to the stage
Restricted access to unguarded edges
Warning lights
Audible warnings
Tactile edges
Warning barriers
Signage
Temporary barriers
Personal fall protection
Fall restraint
Spotters"
 
What about a beam clamp attached to the plate, with an eyebolt screwed into it? The thinnest part of the beam clamp would be inside the pocket, the eyebolt and barrier rope would land on the upstage.

It’s all rated hardware, and is easily removable. You could do multiples and use the tennis net suggested earlier (I love that idea).
 
I want to install a rope across our proscenium during non show times. I'm not sure how I can anchor it.
Can I install an eyebolt into the smoke pocket of my fire curtain if it doesn't interfere with the travel of the curtain? (not that i'l looking forward to drilling through that metal plate)
Is there some guide line to size or style of rope for this?

Any advice anyone has who has installed something like this?
If you need an eye to attach the rope then drill through the track, install an elevator bolt (no head) and use a cast threaded eye. You may have to turn the bolt to get the eye to orient the eye properly. Once your satisfied with it, unscrew the eye, apply some threadlock, reinstall and walk away.
 

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