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Scroller issues

Discussion in 'Lighting and Electrics' started by Dustincoc, May 2, 2008.

  1. Dustincoc

    Dustincoc Active Member

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    During dimmer check tonight I noticed that one of the scrollers was going to the wrong frame. Every other night at 25% all the scrollers are an amber but tonight I got 8 ambers and a blue. They are Wybron Coloram II 's that we picked up used from PRG.
     
  2. ceedwards

    ceedwards Member

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    Good Morning young lad, try resetting the scroller brain.
     
  3. highschooltech

    highschooltech Active Member

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    What board are you using? And, do they all have the same gel sting in them because you say you got them used?
     
  4. Grog12

    Grog12 CBMod CB Mods Premium Member

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    Is it the last scroller in the chain? What board? Do you have a present written to take them to 25% or are you doing it manually?

    Try resetting the brain first....also you may have to use the manual adjustment (if the Coloram has that).
     
  5. Dustincoc

    Dustincoc Active Member

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    Express 24/48

    They all came with new Gel Strings and have been working right up until tonight.

    I swapped out the scroller for one of our spares and I haven't had a chance to really look at it to well. I checked the lights at 6:30 and need to be out of the space by 7:15(7:30 at the latest) for house to open at 7:30. The spare worked correctly so I don't think it has to do with the board or power supply.
     
  6. derekleffew

    derekleffew Resident Curmudgeon Senior Team Premium Member

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    First, congratulations for having a spare on hand. (Users considering buying MLs or DMX "toys" take note.) The offending unit may just need to re-cal or it could be a major problem. Visually check the gelstring and optical sensor. Address it the same as a working one and see if it keeps up or not. In case you don't have the manual, here's the link.
     
  7. icewolf08

    icewolf08 CBMod CB Mods

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    Actually along with what Derek said about checking the optical sensor you should check the sting itself. As it rolls through the sensor the gel can get clouded. If it gets too opaque then the sensor will think that it is at en end of the string during calibration. So you may need to clean the string.
     
  8. Dustincoc

    Dustincoc Active Member

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    Is there anyway the scroller can reverse its frames? I mean the scroller thinking that frame 1 is frame 16. I pulled up the standard gelstring chart and at 25%(frame 4ish), the color that came up looks more like the color around the 75%(Frame 12/13ish) mark.
     
  9. icewolf08

    icewolf08 CBMod CB Mods

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    That would be quite intriguing. There is no way that I know of without actually turning the string around by hand. I would ask if you dropped an inverse profile on the channel, but since your spare worked, that wouldn't make sense.
     
  10. Dustincoc

    Dustincoc Active Member

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    I'll take a better look at it in the morning or between shows tomorrow. Where is the optical sensor, The manual doesn't mention one, Wybron doesn't give exploded diagrams and I've never really looked inside a scroller before.

    If I can't figure it out in a couple days I'll give an alum at PRG a call, he can usually figure out our problems.

    My best guess for now is that the optical sensor detected the end of the string in the middle somehow. I couldn't power down the controller because it is plugged into the same power conditioner as the light board and I couldn't get up to where the controller is before the show.
     
  11. icewolf08

    icewolf08 CBMod CB Mods

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    To get to the optical sensor you have to take the cover off the scroller (silver thumb screws) then towards the bottom of one of the rollers will be a sensor. The gel should be seated between the sensor and a small piece of metal. I forget which side it is on. It is even possible that the gel string just jumped out of the sensor which caused mis-calibration.

    You might also want to check the string tension. Once you have the cover open one of the rollers should have a sticker that says how many turns you should make before attaching the sting. So, what you would do is untape the gel from the roller and gently let it release it's tension. Then, while holding the string, spin the roller the number of times it lists for the number of color frames you have. Then retape the gel to the roller making sure that it passes through the optical sensor.
     
  12. sound_nerd

    sound_nerd Active Member

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    Few things could've happened, some more likely than others. I run a rig of CR2's and they all work flawlessly with the exception of a few jumped scrolls every once in a blue moon. That'd be the first thing I'd check, see if the scroll has jumped out of the alignment tracks, which would keep the magnetic strip to far away from the sensor to provide accurate alignment. (I find this happens most when improperly wound scrolls are mixed with very fast scrolling)
    Other possibilities include a worn out mag stripe on the scroll or a bad sensor in the scroller unit itself.
     
  13. Sean

    Sean Active Member

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    I've found that even when you think everything _should_ be working fine, scrollers sometimes don't agree.

    The sensor in the RamII is on the bottom-left when you take off the cover. The gel string should be in the little slot. If it isn't, you're very likely to blow a fuse.

    When in doubt, reload the string. It really couldn't hurt.




    A side note: We're running a show now with low-lying glycol fog. There are floor mount units under the set that sit in the fog for 2 hours a night. One of the frames of color (L135) in all the deck scrollers is essentially delaminating. I called Wybron (built the gel strings) and Lee (it's a Lee color). Wybron had never heard of this before, and Lee took a couple days to get a real answer to me.

    Apparently, Lee 135 is particularly sensitive to glycol fog.

    So, if you're going to do a show with LOTS of glycol in your scrollers (like, dripping out after a week of shows), don't use L135.

    *sigh*

    --Sean
     
  14. ReddyKilowatt

    ReddyKilowatt Member

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    The ColoRam does not use an optical sensor. Go through the frames one by one. If they are all correct except the one, you most likely have a bad string (wrong colors). Every time you cycle power to the power supply, the CR's will re-cal themselves.

    Dusty Hudgins
    Sales Manager
    Wybron, Inc.
     
  15. Sean

    Sean Active Member

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    The OP stated they all had been working (ie, had previously been all in the same color). Now, maybe he's never noticed before (didn't sound like he had much troubleshooting time either), but a wrong color sounds unlikely if the problem just appeared.

    Optical or otherwise, there is a sensor on the bottom left of the scroller.

    --Sean
     
  16. icewolf08

    icewolf08 CBMod CB Mods

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    Not to argue with you, but if the ColoRamII do not have an optical sensor, then what is the sensor? It has some sensor, hence the foil tags on the strings and the fact that you have to put the gel string in the sensor slot or you blow fuses.
     
  17. Dustincoc

    Dustincoc Active Member

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    I have been checking the color of every scroller every night to make sure something didn't get unplugged. The problem just appeared last night.

    http://www.wybron.com/support/troubleshooting/Coloram_System_Troubleshooting.pdf

    I believe what your refering to is the tag sensor.

    I'm going in a little earlier than normal to take a look at it. If I show up at call time, I only get the stage for a 1/2 hour to check and repair any issues(including house lights/ broken seats/ ect) before fight call. I normally show up at least 15 mins. early to get things powered up before the board op arrives. I'm the ME for this production.
     
  18. Dustincoc

    Dustincoc Active Member

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    Got it fixed... The scroll had just jumped out of the sensor. Took longer to take it to the lighting area than it did to fix it.

    I think I caused it, The disco party I put on for the
    SM likes on occassion involved putting the scrollers on the trackpad and ...
     
  19. ReddyKilowatt

    ReddyKilowatt Member

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    The CR II and CR IT uses a encoder feedback system that is more reliable than optical sensors. On the bottom of the roller, you will see a couple of small round magnets. As the roller turns, the magnets pass by a sensor and the sensor counts how many times the magnetic field fluxuates.
     
  20. Kelite

    Kelite Apollo Staff Premium Member

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    <So, if you're going to do a show with LOTS of glycol in your scrollers (like, dripping out after a week of shows), don't use L135.>

    Knowing our craft involves fog and other fun atmospherics, bear in mind the glycol passing through the electronics of the scroller (regardless of brand). This residue will build up over time and likely affect the scroller/s performance down the road.

    The foggy effect was undoubtedly pretty impressive, as most of us would agree. But the scroller/s will eventually pay for it later. (I think of the non-smoking bartender in a very hazy work environment.)
     

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