Seeking suggestions for a talkback system

[malex]

My institution recently opened a beautiful, state of the art facility for all of the Arts programs. Included was a small Black Box theatre. The venue is amazing, with only one caveat. The architect neglected to spec a sliding glass window in the booth that we had requested. Instead, we have the most soundproof fixed window I've ever come across. You could be getting murdered in the tiny booth and screaming and banging on the window and the patrons would never know. Replacing the window is not an option. I am looking for the best idea for a talk back system between the booth and the stage. We have a Dante system networking all of the audio with many ports everywhere in the space. We also have several Cat6 tie lines between the booth and the stage available for any purpose. We have a very nice digital, multi channel Clear Com system.
Here is what we need: The ability for any person or any audio on stage to be picked up by microphones at all times and heard on monitors in the booth as well as the ability to use a momentary button operated God mike in the booth to communicate to the stage.
Here are my questions: Should we utilize the existing audio mixer to facilitate this or would it make more sense for this to be a standalone system that operates totally independently? Seems to me this would be a good thing, so that it is never turned off, rerouted or otherwise mixed up in the live audio of the room. Would our Clear Com system help us here? Can mics be run into Clear Com ports in the grid and monitors out of the base station in the booth making one channel dedicated to this purpose? What do you all think is a good solution?

 

[jtweigandt]

for listening, you could use something as simple as a baby monitor.. Get a video one, and you could use the infra red capability to see what's going on during a blackout. We use the board for our God mike.. though it is prone to reprogramming shenanigans. Never used the baby monitor.. thats just one of my cheap ass simple may be better ideas.

 

[Aaron Becker]

For listening to the stage, why not use room mics or a sub-mix (matrix - do people still call them that) from the house mix into monitors in the control room? It doesn't help you mix the room, but it accomplishes what you're trying to do.

As far as talkback, any sound console should be capable of having a mic plugged into it and routing it only to stage monitors or IEMs, but with wedges you will have bleedover into the house most likely. If you only need to talk to backstage techs, etc, that's what your ClearCom is for.

Oh, and I would really suggest running some Cat(whatever) out to the house and setting your mixing console up out there. If anything is running on Dante, you should be able to accomplish this pretty easily. Or break out some oldschool analog snakes to the control room. You'd never get me mixing a live event from a completely isolated room. Sliding windows is bad enough.

 

[RonHebbard]

My institution recently opened a beautiful, state of the art facility for all of the Arts programs. Included was a small Black Box theatre. The venue is amazing, with only one caveat. The architect neglected to spec a sliding glass window in the booth that we had requested. Instead, we have the most soundproof fixed window I've ever come across. You could be getting murdered in the tiny booth and screaming and banging on the window and the patrons would never know. Replacing the window is not an option. I am looking for the best idea for a talk back system between the booth and the stage. We have a Dante system networking all of the audio with many ports everywhere in the space. We also have several Cat6 tie lines between the booth and the stage available for any purpose. We have a very nice digital, multi channel Clear Com system.
Here is what we need: The ability for any person or any audio on stage to be picked up by microphones at all times and heard on monitors in the booth as well as the ability to use a momentary button operated God mike in the booth to communicate to the stage.
Here are my questions: Should we utilize the existing audio mixer to facilitate this or would it make more sense for this to be a standalone system that operates totally independently? Seems to me this would be a good thing, so that it is never turned off, rerouted or otherwise mixed up in the live audio of the room. Would our Clear Com system help us here? Can mics be run into Clear Com ports in the grid and monitors out of the base station in the booth making one channel dedicated to this purpose? What do you all think is a good solution?

My vote is for a dedicated, 24 / 7, separate system.
When / if a delivery driver arrives, walks into your theatre on a day / time when it's not in use and sees you in your booth at the back of the balcony, they will likely yell up to you louder and louder wondering why you're not replying. When / if you're alone in the space you'll want to reply to them before they fall in your pit, and / or wander off in search of somebody somewhere to sign for their delivery and / or leave their delivery where no staff will find it before it's discovered by curious students: Let's hope it's not a delivery for your bar, vending machines, etcetera.
Toodleoo!
Ron Hebbard

 

[macsound]

I'm with Ron, dedicated system that's always on.

If it's a simple system with no EQ, I'd recommend a flat omni microphone, like a measurement mic, running through a mixer into a ceiling mounted speaker in the booth. Something quality so you don't get fatigued when listening to it for an entire show.

For talkback to the stage, I'd recommend a condenser tabletop gooseneck PTT mic, like the Shure MX418. Assuming at some point there will be an SM in the booth that might want to use it for announcements, having a long boom they can speak into would be nice. Also being condenser and flexible, you can assume better gain before feedback than something like a tabletop mic.

In the room, 70v ceiling mount speakers since you won't have to worry about placement or coverage like you would if you used Control 25s or something. Might even merge that into a "house sound" system with an additional XLR connection and 1/8" by the door for announcements and background music when there's no tech working. And since we're dreaming here, another speaker in the lobby with a switch to disable from the booth for when you'd like to only talkback inside the theatre.

 

[RonHebbard]

I'm with Ron, dedicated system that's always on.

If it's a simple system with no EQ, I'd recommend a flat omni microphone, like a measurement mic, running through a mixer into a ceiling mounted speaker in the booth. Something quality so you don't get fatigued when listening to it for an entire show.

For talkback to the stage, I'd recommend a condenser tabletop gooseneck PTT mic, like the Shure MX418. Assuming at some point there will be an SM in the booth that might want to use it for announcements, having a long boom they can speak into would be nice. Also being condenser and flexible, you can assume better gain before feedback than something like a tabletop mic.

In the room, 70v ceiling mount speakers since you won't have to worry about placement or coverage like you would if you used Control 25s or something. Might even merge that into a "house sound" system with an additional XLR connection and 1/8" by the door for announcements and background music when there's no tech working. And since we're dreaming here, another speaker in the lobby with a switch to disable from the booth for when you'd like to only talkback inside the theatre.

I think you're trying to combine at least two functions that ought not to be.
I'm suggesting a totally dedicated system that you wouldn't be listening to during a rehearsal or performance; only while you're alone (or close to it) in the building with no stage door person or loading dock person. No one to hear, or see, an uninvited person wandering aimlessly about. Combine it with a God mike with speakers covering both the house and stage capable of cutting through the levels of LOUD musicals, symphonies, rock concerts and PANIC situations such as fires.

If you're in a closed / soundproof booth and want to have ANY chance of judging EQ, relative levels of multiple SFX speakers providing directionality from various locations / directions; at the minimum you want a stereo mic such as Crown's SASS (Stereo Ambient Sampling System) SASS-P (Phantom powered) or something far more spendy from Neuman, AKG, or others at those price points.

Or better yet, another person whose ears and judgment you trust in a dedicated sound only session free of SM / lighting / fly cues and other chatter on a good comm's system to keep you in communication.
Toodleoo!
Ron Hebbard

 

[Craig Hauber]

It's 2021 and we are still building theaters with soundproof rooms for the SOUND person? And it actually got all the way through to commissioning without someone saying WOAH hold the horses?

-If so, I really no longer have any faith in our current project Architect, designer and engineering disciplines in this country.

If it's just a lighting or broadcast booth with house sound outside of it then carry-on!
And yes, a 24-7 automatic system as described by Mr Hebbard is the way to go. You do not want to rely on a mixer that may be turned off or on a different scene or swapped out for the designer's preference that month!
If there's a venue-wide DSP matrix system that is always a good place to implement such listening features.

 

[RonHebbard]

My institution recently opened a beautiful, state of the art facility for all of the Arts programs. Included was a small Black Box theatre. The venue is amazing, with only one caveat. The architect neglected to spec a sliding glass window in the booth that we had requested. Instead, we have the most soundproof fixed window I've ever come across. You could be getting murdered in the tiny booth and screaming and banging on the window and the patrons would never know. Replacing the window is not an option. I am looking for the best idea for a talk back system between the booth and the stage. We have a Dante system networking all of the audio with many ports everywhere in the space. We also have several Cat6 tie lines between the booth and the stage available for any purpose. We have a very nice digital, multi channel Clear Com system.
Here is what we need: The ability for any person or any audio on stage to be picked up by microphones at all times and heard on monitors in the booth as well as the ability to use a momentary button operated God mike in the booth to communicate to the stage.
Here are my questions: Should we utilize the existing audio mixer to facilitate this or would it make more sense for this to be a standalone system that operates totally independently? Seems to me this would be a good thing, so that it is never turned off, rerouted or otherwise mixed up in the live audio of the room. Would our Clear Com system help us here? Can mics be run into Clear Com ports in the grid and monitors out of the base station in the booth making one channel dedicated to this purpose? What do you all think is a good solution?

Dredging up a previous thread and adding to it.
In the 80's and 90's, I was installing my solution to a basic stereo / mono, 24/7, flexible utility monitoring system in 3 RU.
Rane Corporation used to manufacture a 1 RU channel strip.
It provided 48 volt phantom power, a mic preamp, basic compression, limiting and 3 band EQ; two of these could be coupled to provide stereo compression and limiting. At the time, RANE's was quite affordable, unlike Grace Design's M103 at north of $2G per channel.

1 RU for stereo left.
1 RU for stereo right.
1 RU for a 1x4 by 4 balanced audio DA from ATI, Audio Technologies Incorporated, NOT Audio Toys, and I had the heart of a quiet, dependable, broadcast quality, 24/7/365 program monitoring and stereo / mono distribution system in 3RU.

The first 1 x 4 DA provided 3 balanced outputs of stereo left.
Similarly, the second 1 x 4 DA provided 3 balanced outputs of stereo right.
The 4th output of the first two DA's combined to provide mono into the third 1 x 4 DA leaving the 4th 1 x 4 DA for utility use.
The stereo outputs drove monitoring in the enclosed FX booth and for recording.
The mono outputs drove the spot booths, back stage / dressing rooms, green room, FOH manager's office and the rest of the design and administration offices.
@Dionysus if this looks familiar, it (along with Crown's SASS-P) was what was installed in your London, Ontario, Grand Theatre's main stage as part of the 1983 upgrade.
Toodleoo!
Ron Hebbard