Selection of a Student Stage Crew

[shiben]

And on the issue of the teacher building parts of the set, I wouldn't trust very many of the teenagers I know with a plasma cutter with all the sue happy parents running about.

I would rather give them a plasma cutter than a lot of other things.

 

[shiben]

Tekik, I'm only quoting you because you brought up a very important (to me) issue. The following is not directed at you, as I understand that you're not a teacher. It's just an "in general" rant directed at paranoid teachers who are perhaps lazy (not training) and afraid of their parents.



Except that it's not even a teacher -- it's a parent of an ex-student (there are probably some liability issues with this issue being that he is most likely not formally employed with the school, and on paper, has no business being there. School insurance is not covering him.)

As for not trusting students... Well... For starters, schools have huge insurance policies that you can refer the sue-happy parents to, as well as an administration who will handle situations outside of your job description. The instructor shouldn't be involved in a case save cooperating with a potential site investigation. If you're doing the correct training and enforcing safe practices, you have nothing to worry about. The students and parents signed this waiver within the first week of school. If it were a huge problem, I don't think shop classes would still be around.

I guess my main point is, you can't just put a blanket "I don't trust you" statement on all the students. Some of them are very talented, but you will never know unless you take a chance. Schools are equal-opportunity, hands-on environments. They use the fly system, they handle $1,000's worth of computers at school, they probably even drive themselves. Teach them (the ones who want to*) to use some dang saws! Power tools speed up the maturing process (with proper supervision). I took a wood shop in 8th grade - and with some terrifyingly immature kids. No one got hurt. Set construction is a BIG part of technical theatre. Don't cause them to miss out on the opportunity.

*Never make anyone use a tool if they don't want to. Let them learn another craft for a while. You should always maintain a level of respect (and a dose of fear) in power tools, which keeps you safe. When you get fearless, you get hurt. But if a student is dead-set against using a table saw, by all means take it as a hint that they are not suited for set construction yet - or ever. Keep the door open for them, though as they may change their mind.

As far as I understand, JonasA is a HS Student, and actually shouldn't be confronting the parent. He should confront his teacher, who should then confront the parent.

Yes. Schools should teach ya how to do stuff, not let you watch how to do it. I remember in High School, we had a robotics class, but we couldnt machine any parts, just draw pictures of them. It sucked. Took half the fun out of making the thing. Went from being a crafts person to being an assembly line worker. Further, the only way to take "shop" was vocational training school instead of "college prep" classes. That was brilliant, especially since in school I would be using those shop skills more than being able to do calculus, but thats a different fight. But seriously. Let the kids use some tools. Believe it or not, most people will do a lot of things to avoid cutting their arm off.

 

[Tekik]

The plasma cutter was just the first thing that came to mind.
Now I am not trying to say that the students shouldnt build the set. I am saying if the teacher is concerned that the student(s) are not at a level of maturity to operate certin tools then he should handle those specific tasks himself. If he is too scared to let them run a chop saw then he needs to step back and look at his career decision. But if he is uncomfortable sending students up to grid to dead hang a sign above the stage he should do it. I think students should eventualy be invited to assist with these tasks at a point where they have shown that they are mature enough to be responsible. Also its not concern about the equipment but student safety, if a student falls through the roof and dies the teacher is likely to loose their job.
@Les dont worry about it forums exist to discuss varying opinions.

 

[Les]

@Les dont worry about it forums exist to discuss varying opinions.

Thanks, Tekik. This is a fairly on-going issue, and you just happened to get hit in the crossfire. . On a different note, welcome to CB!!

I think we are in agreement on a lot of the points brought up in this thread. My thought is that it all comes down to the teacher being able to validate a student's capabilities based on their actions in and out of the department, then making an educated decision as to whether or not they are fit for the shop (or should they work on props, costume, etc a little longer?)
The validation by the teacher should be strictly case-by-case and not based on any prejudices (a kid got hurt last year, so no one is using tools this year -or- I know an adult who can do it better [So what! It's high school! This ain't finish carpentry here!]).
I feel like anyone who has been teaching for more than a handful of years will be able to easily determine who has potential and who doesn't. Usually, the "good potential" are the kids who are staying late cleaning the shop, asking what else needs to be done after a long day, and showing general interest in the program and how shows go up.

 

[Clifford]

If possible, have a class, and make it mandatory for working the shows.

At our school, this helps us a lot. Our issue tends not to be numbers so much as being left to babysit a lot of students who need an elective or extra-curricular activity. These are the ones that don't have any particular interest in theatre and are often the most disruptive and least productive. We still make exceptions for some students if they cannot enroll in the class. As far as we're concerned, if they come up and ask to be part of the crew, they're showing enough interest and earnestly want to be part of the production.

Another tool we have is a checklist of activities and equipment that the students can do/use. In order to be able to operate anything, the student must demonstrate to a faculty member that they have been trained on it and understand how to operate it safely. They have it signed off and they can operate that in the future. Creating this set of skills helps to let new students know that it's an ongoing experience and that there are goals they will be expected to work toward. A good few of them will decide they are better uses of their time than real work and more learning after school.

 

[addy2503]

I am part of the tech/stage crew at my school, and we have a 'club' held by one of the staff at the school, & it's only people who go to the meetings that are allowed to be part of the tech/stage crew.

 

[Gnara]

We do this at my school, where we have to be signed off for the saw, hammers, chisels, power drills...etc.
Its a great idea, but the issue at my school is that several kids who get signed off end up going into bad habits with everything right after the signing. People tend to not use safety goggles when they should be used, drilling into trash cans, and swinging around hammers willy-nilly. If something like this is done, i do suggest every now and again redoing the whole signing off sheets or finding a way to enforce safety.

 

[museav]

Now I am not trying to say that the students shouldnt build the set. I am saying if the teacher is concerned that the student(s) are not at a level of maturity to operate certin tools then he should handle those specific tasks himself. If he is too scared to let them run a chop saw then he needs to step back and look at his career decision. But if he is uncomfortable sending students up to grid to dead hang a sign above the stage he should do it. I think students should eventualy be invited to assist with these tasks at a point where they have shown that they are mature enough to be responsible. Also its not concern about the equipment but student safety, if a student falls through the roof and dies the teacher is likely to loose their job.

Good points, but as Les noted I think it is important to differentiate that the original comments were that the person involved is the father of an ex-student, not a teacher at the school or even the parent of a current student, and that the reason for excluding students is that they don't want kids bugging them, not that they had any safety concerns. While such a person's involvement and expertise should be valued and appreciated, their participation should be for the benefit of the students. And since they do not represent the school they should only be deciding what they do and maybe making recommendations to those responsible, not making decisions regarding or dictating student participation in relation to school or school sponsored activities.

Most schools have been offering various shop classes for years and probably have developed approaches to address most of not all of the related issues, there is likely no need to reinvent the wheel or reason to not take advantage of the effort already invested there.

 

[Clifford]

We do this at my school, where we have to be signed off for the saw, hammers, chisels, power drills...etc.
Its a great idea, but the issue at my school is that several kids who get signed off end up going into bad habits with everything right after the signing. People tend to not use safety goggles when they should be used, drilling into trash cans, and swinging around hammers willy-nilly. If something like this is done, i do suggest every now and again redoing the whole signing off sheets or finding a way to enforce safety.

That's exactly what we do, I forgot to mention in my post. Apart from the obvious fact that the students should be supervised to make sure they aren't doing things incorrectly, random checks on students don't hurt either. It keeps you up to speed with any problem students, and prevents the better students from getting complacent.

 

[Gnara]

That's exactly what we do, I forgot to mention in my post. Apart from the obvious fact that the students should be supervised to make sure they aren't doing things incorrectly, random checks on students don't hurt either. It keeps you up to speed with any problem students, and prevents the better students from getting complacent.

With this, in case you dont already, i do suggest also that you do these checks with your Cat trained students. Again, several kids with my theater have gotten into the habbit of taking watter bottles up there and leaving them on top of storage cabinets and other things. Alot of our students done seem to grasp the seriousness of dropping things from the cats either. (So that you're not worrying or anything, i have brought up this issue among others to our TD)

 

[Clifford]

I do sweeps of the FOH catwalk (the only one in our theatre) periodically during the run of a show. Since this is where our followspots are located and where all the FOH lights are making things toasty for the length of the show, I always want the ops to have bottled water available to them easily. But you're correct, they need to make sure they don't leave it somewhere it could conceivably leave the catwalk and fall on someone below.