# short throw followspot

##### Member
I need to figure out the best followspot to get for the pretty tiny black box community theater where I work. We're one part of a non-profit arts center and our theater is only about 40' wide by 45' deep, 13' to the pipe grid. We do a lot of different stuff, everything from live music to dance to spoken word to screenings to classes to avant garde performance art. Most of the bookings are for one night only, so we're perpetually moving stage and audience platforms and chairs and refocusing lights for every show.
Since we often host cabaret-style comedy and burlesque shows, we'd like to have a small followspot to add to our inventory of Source 4s and 6" Fresnels. It could also be useful as a last minute front special when we run out of focus time.
The problem is that I'm not sure what would work best in such a small space. The booth is only about 40' from the center of the stage, and I think that even the small followspots I've looked at (Lycian Midget II Quartz or Altman Luminator) might not be a large enough diameter beam at that throw. It would also be nice if it fit easily into our small booth and was within our budget of about $850. I haven't really had much experience with followspots. Does anyone have any suggestions on what would work best for this application? Thanks! #### Footer ##### Senior Team Senior Team Premium Member Odds are an HMI spot of any kind will blow you out of the water at that short of a throw, and even an alt spot is not made for that short of a throw. I think your best bet would be to get a S4 with a 10 or 14 deg lens and get a "spot kit" for it. Throw a 750w lamp in it and you will have a pretty nice spotlight that can do a short throw rather easily. City theatrical sells just about everything you need for this conversion, including a boomerang if you so choose. http://www.citytheatrical.com/ #### mbandgeek ##### Active Member WOW!!!!! That is the single coolest thing that i've ever seen!! #### fosstech ##### Active Member Right now we're using a couple of S4 10 degree instruments (not sure if they have the "spot kit" or not) in addition to our two Lycian HMI spots in Urinetown. We threw a color correction gel on them and they work great for the secondary spots when we need more than two. We're using them for a short throw application from our boxes which are about the distance you're talking about from the stage. #### AdamC ##### Member Yeah, I've thought of that too, but with the S4 and all the accesories that would be needed to get the features of a standard followspot it actually would end up being more expensive to go that route. It also seems like it would be awkward to use with a dimmer from the light board. Without fan cooling it could get pretty hot as well. Might still be the best option, I guess. I'm hoping there's a followspot that can flood just a bit more than the ones I've seen. But I haven't found it yet. #### mbandgeek ##### Active Member yes it would be more expensive, but you can't hang a normal followspot on your electrics. so the S4 is pulling double duty. #### drawstuf99 ##### Active Member I once had to run a S4 just with a drop-in iris for a spot light at a community theatre and we didnt even use the little spot kit. I just put some gloves on and ran it like how you focus it - it worked nicely. The problem was the spot light that the theatre had wasn't packing enough punch to punch through some of the light cues but the source four could. In regards to the dimmer, we just made a little dimmer "box" with a standard rotating dimmer switch and plugged it into the wall you would to a lamp or something. Then I could fade it in and everything just fine and it was independent of the board. #### zac850 ##### Well-Known Member The Altman Luminator may work for you. At a 40' throw it will give you a beam diameter of 6.5 feet. Altman lists it at$1,125.00, but I'm sure you could find one used for about your price point.

Time Square Lighting also has the 601S that may work. Looks cheeper, and will give you around a 10' beam.

Altman and Time Square Lighting both make good quality gear. Time Square Lighting is less well known, but I have worked with some of their fresnels and follow spots and never had any problem.

#### soundlight

##### Well-Known Member
THe Times Square 601 with the color box/color boomerang looks like a very viable option for you. It'd make a nice sized spot for your theater.

#### ship

##### Senior Team Emeritus
Odds are an HMI spot of any kind will blow you out of the water at that short of a throw, and even an alt spot is not made for that short of a throw. I think your best bet would be to get a S4 with a 10 or 14 deg lens and get a "spot kit" for it. Throw a 750w lamp in it and you will have a pretty nice spotlight that can do a short throw rather easily. City theatrical sells just about everything you need for this conversion, including a boomerang if you so choose.
http://www.citytheatrical.com/

I was thinking the same thing innitially, or what my college TD at one point bodged together with other Leko fixtures that had iris's in them for similar instances. Than I read the 40' note. Granted it's a 13' ceiling but it's a fixture 40' away that is competing for intensity with S-4 fixtures.

American DJ and other mostly halogen fixtures - especially those at 575w probably won't have enough Luminous output in my thinking. A 1,000w halogen follow spot fixture perhaps also as similar to the 750w City Theatrical S-4 but only perhaps and not by much given this throw distance. This only if the primary Leko lighting on stage is by way of 575w lamps and no 750w lamps such a follow spot is in competition with.

Was also thinking some MR-16 based 360W low voltage clubspot fixtures but also thinking that at that throw range, it would not be bright enough.

Were it me, I would probably stick to a 575w HMI lamped / Arclight discharge metal hallide lamp source available from any number of manufacturers.

This very much based upon first the on-line photometrics than play testing each brand. Robert Juliat, Lycian, Strong, Altman, amongst many makers have such products on the market.

This is gut feeling but in something like a say 8' dia max beam (perhaps with a wide lens) and a goal of something like over 60 foot candles at a 45' range, it's going to be an arc source type fixture I would theorize.

Again my opinion of what to look towards for fixture type based upon the lamp. I know a Lycian M2 would also do this range but might be a bit pricy.

##### Member
Thanks for all the good suggestions. We might actually be OK with a halogen or MR16 followspot or a converted 750w S4 since our S4s are lamped at 575 and we rarely run them at full or even very high unless it's with a saturated gel.

I'm kind of thinking now it might be smart to look for the maximum versatility with this bit of our tiny budget. A drop-in iris or two for our S4s would be very useful even without followspot use. As would a floor stand... a plug-in dimmer... and a S4 10 degree or maybe a 15-30 zoom.

I was looking at the prices for 10 and 14 degree S4s or lens tubes, and since a zoom would be only a little bit more money and be more versatile, maybe that would be a good addition, perhaps with the balanced yoke option. But the zoom isn't quite as bright or narrow as a 10 degree S4, and maybe with some irises in our inventory, the zoom feature wouldn't be so enticing.

We've got 9 S4-50, 9 S4-36, and 18 6" Fresnels now. I'm already planning on adding a couple of S4-19 and S4-26 and 4 50 degree lens tubes, so a S4-10 could fill the occasional need for a very narrow bright beam, and serve as a nice little followspot too. Hmmmm...

#### Thomas

##### Member
I've just spent R700 - about US\$70 - on a Strand Pat23N- one of Strand's first theatre profiles with a funny lens attachment that, with an iris, works just great as a followspot. It's based on a T13 lamp, so it sits nicely in most musical numbers. No complaints there. Very short throw distance required - 20m perhaps!

#### ship

##### Senior Team Emeritus
T-13? Never heard of such a lamp base or lamp globe. Peeks my interest, please refine and define so I can add it to my notes.

" It's based on a T13 lamp, so it sits nicely in most musical numbers." How does a basing of a lamp type make it fit better in a musical number?

Note: I very specpecically am not challenging your post, it has instead peaked my interest in learning more about something I know nothing about. That worries me given the constant war between the fixture buyer where I work and me the lamp buyer for our constant game of who knows about a new lamp to the industry first. 90% of the time I win but he tries hard and I don't want to be caught with my pants down where I can help it.

#### cutlunch

##### Active Member
Ship here is a link to the lamp I think Thomas is talking about.

It is a 240V lamp with the P28 base.

I am not quite sure what Thomas means about fitting in with musical numbers. But I am wondering if he is talking about the colour temprature fitting in more with the other lights. This might be instead of another type of lamp being colder looking or harsher(?spelling) It will be interesting to see the explanation.

I have used one of the Pat 23N as a spotlight on a home built stand. It worked alright but had no colour changer. You could always set up different Gel frames but this can be a hassle. Unless you are really stuck for budget I probably wouldn't go this way.

#### ship

##### Senior Team Emeritus
Ah' T-13 was the Lif code. That is a standardized and accepted lamp description, sorry if I misunderstood what it meant.

I'm laughing... could be a new lamp or very likely is this lamp:
FKB (230v) (3/03) Philips #923865045500 (#6998C) (T-22 & T-13) CL, Quartz Bi-Plane 650w/230v T-22mm 11x12mm filament LCL 55.6mm P-28s Any Burn Pos. 3,000̊K 13,000 Lum 750hr

The supplier of this lamp has a typo in the ANSI code - it's a FKB not a FBK. A FBK lamp is a discontinued lamp type and there is no substitute noted.

Too bad the Phillips lamp in the photo wasn't very clear in the graphics or one could read the lamp code on it. My guess... the photo reads #6998C.

Overall output of this lamp is the same as any 115v/575w light coming out of a S-4 fixture.

Still as pointed out by others and chosen, 575w to 750w halogen lamps seem to be sufficient enough given the throw range. Also good to know that the P-28s lamp is not yet a dead end street by way of lamp technology.

Might try for your at times follow spot the FKM lamp for higher output. IT's the high output version of this 230v 650w lamp. Should help the punch some.

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#### Thomas

##### Member
The lamp fits in nicely in terms of its colour temperature, as well as the intensity- it's not brute force, being a 650w lamp, so there's no blinding of singers, as with the HMI spots I've used in the venue before- although there's nothing wrong with that either....

Either way, It may not be the most awesome looking device, (it's actually quite ugly) and not exactly powerful, as followspots go, but it does the job for the space, especially since the current rig consists of only generic fixtures, and didn't require me to have a kidney removed to pay for it. All in all, money well spent.

##### Member
I'm definitely leaning toward using a S4 with the City Theatrical followspot yoke. Since it has a 1.5" pipe mount, pan bearings, and it let's you balance the fixture, it does seem like a really nice solution.

From looking at the design, I don't think the yoke would fit a S4 zoom - the place where it attaches to the S4 looks to be different on the zooms. Can anyone confirm this?

Also, the City Theatrical color boomerang looks like it wouldn't fit 5 through 14 degree S4s or the zooms, but would only fit on the 19-50, with the 6.25" color frame size. Is that correct?

I don't think we'l need to use or change color very often anyway, so we could probably just switch gels manually, if so.

#### Footer

##### Senior Team
Senior Team
I'm definitely leaning toward using a S4 with the City Theatrical followspot yoke. Since it has a 1.5" pipe mount, pan bearings, and it let's you balance the fixture, it does seem like a really nice solution.
From looking at the design, I don't think the yoke would fit a S4 zoom - the place where it attaches to the S4 looks to be different on the zooms. Can anyone confirm this?
Also, the City Theatrical color boomerang looks like it wouldn't fit 5 through 14 degree S4s or the zooms, but would only fit on the 19-50, with the 6.25" color frame size. Is that correct?
I don't think we'l need to use or change color very often anyway, so we could probably just switch gels manually, if so.

The Boomerang is a 6.25", so you are right on that one. They do make scrollers big enough so thats an option in the future. Also, I do not believe the yoke will fit a zoom because the zoom is much wider then a standard S4

#### Dustincoc

##### Active Member
We have an even smaller space, The spots only have a 20'-30' throw. What we use are Altman 6x16's with a length of 1" dowel Attatched with Hose Clamps to the top of the unit . Around this we gaff some small weights to counterbalance the unit. The only problem I'v ever seen with thee is that it's a pain in the Ass to change a lamp, Usually I'll end up removing the reflector to change the lamp.