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Wireless Should I replace my Senn. "C" range equipment?

Discussion in 'Sound, Music, and Intercom' started by grumpytech, Jun 24, 2009.

  1. grumpytech

    grumpytech Member

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    So I have purchased in the past 4 years 13 Wireless receivers, 3 hand helds, 13 packs, and one wireless adater. The first install was the intial 10 I purxchased 4 years ago and as luck would have it the company installing the sustem chose the "c" range..the 700 range!!!!
    So now ai Have a 2,000 dollar rebate offer on the table from Sennheiser with an overall cost of about 6330How worried should I be? everyone I have talked to has said they are "waiting to see." I dont want to power up one day to hear nastyness all over the place and be stuck. I just dont know what to do.
    Thoughts!?
     
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2009
  2. Stookeybrd

    Stookeybrd Active Member

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    re: Should I replace my Senn "C" range equipment

    Where are you located? What type of venue are the mics in?

    Because if you are a small community theater out in the country or middle of no where, your fine, keep your gear, you wont be interfering with anyone else.(for now)
    But if you are near a large metropolis, or move around a lot(freelancer) swap out your 700MHz gear. Yesterday.:lol:

    ASIDE- My theater also has a large chunk of change in their wireless system. But we looked into the regulations set by the FCC and did a frequency scan of the area and were not going to, or am stepping on anybodies channels. Long story short, we're keeping our gear unless someone complains.

    So, the easy answer is: it depends.
     
  3. mbenonis

    mbenonis Wireless Guy Administrator Premium Member

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    re: Should I replace my Senn "C" range equipment

    NO, the answer is NOT "it depends." If you have 700 MHz gear, it is now illegal to operate, period. You must replace it. It doesn't matter if you are interfering or receiving interference.

    Please see my FAQ for more on this, or feel free to ask questions here!
     
  4. GreyWyvern

    GreyWyvern Apollo Staff

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    re: Should I replace my Senn "C" range equipment

    Is it any more illegal to operate wireless devices without a permit than it has been all along? Or is that just the case for 700 MHz stuff? :shock::confused::mad:

    I am in a similar situation with Senn. "C" range equipment at my church. The problem is that ours is old enough that the rebate is almost nonexistant. Naturally (not being a very large church), I don't have funds laying around to run out pretending it is Christmas and buy new gear to replace equipment that works just fine still.
     
  5. soundlight

    soundlight Well-Known Member

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    re: Should I replace my Senn "C" range equipment

    It is just the 700MHz range stuff that is illegal. You shoul phase it out rather immediately and replace it with other equipment. For all intents and purposes, this gear is now non operational. You are not allowed to use it, and it should be considered "broken" at this point in time.

    You can get a decent rebate from Shure for any new stuff you buy from them even if you send in old Sennheiser gear. They'll accept anyone's wireless systems for their rebate, and the better Shure system you purchase, the more the rebate is. Here's the rebate form: http://www.shure.com/stellent/group...ents/web_resource/us_pro_700mhz_rebate_r2.pdf
     
  6. JohnHartman

    JohnHartman Member

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    re: Should I replace my Senn "C" range equipment

    To date, the FCC has not made a final ruling on their proposal to ban wireless microphones in the 700 MHz band (698-806 MHz). Until the FCC makes a ruling, wireless microphones can operate on a secondary non-interference basis in this range, just as they have been. This includes the channels designated for public safety: 63-64 (764-776 MHz) and 68-69 (794-806 MHz).
    Now this may change once they get around to making a decision.

    I have pitched replacing 700 band hardware, but they have decided to wait and see before spending the money on replacing what they see as perfectly working hardware and I am in a Major market. So we will see how long it takes to get knocked off line.
     
  7. mbenonis

    mbenonis Wireless Guy Administrator Premium Member

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    re: Should I replace my Senn "C" range equipment

    This is true if you have a license for a microphone in the 700 MHz range. But we don't qualify for a license (see 74 CFR 74.832(a-d), below), and so we've been operating illegally all along!

    Technically speaking, though, you are correct that 47 CFR 74.802(a) was never modified to prohibit BAS device operation. However, since we are unlicensed (and this does not fall under Part 15), the bottom line is that if you do cause harmful interference to a licensed user in the 700 MHz band, you are subject to a potential fine of $11,000 per day per transmitter. Theoretically, you are also subject to that fine for operating a wireless mic on ANY Frequency (save for the hydrological frequencies and/or 2.4 GHz), but the FCC has never levied that fine to my knowledge on users in the VHF or UHF bands, and their Report and Orders has been very careful to sidestep the issue completely.

    That said, I highly, highly recommend that all 700 MHz wireless equipment be replaced immediately with gear below 608 MHz. All it's going to take is an overzealous licensee (such as AT&T or Verizon) to get you in very deep financial trouble).


     
  8. mixmaster

    mixmaster Active Member

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    re: Should I replace my Senn. "C" range equipment?

    Legally, the 700mhz band is closed to us wireless mic users, or will be as soon as the FCC gets around to finalizing the paperwork. Of course, we've never been operating legally in the past since we all operate as unlicensed users.

    Economicly, can you afford NOT to change out your wireless?? How often are you going to get the chance to upgrade older equipment with that kind of a discount? Personally, I'm hoping someone licenses out the VHF band too sometime so I can justify getting rid of my old Shure SC stuff.:lol:
     
  9. museav

    museav CBMod CB Mods Departed Member

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    re: Should I replace my Senn. "C" range equipment?

    In simple terms, almost all theatres, churches, etc. using wireless mics have always been operating illegally since they are not licensed operators. But these users were tolerated as long as they did not interfere with the licensed users, which was pretty easy to get around since analog broadcasting used less of the spectrum and avoided adjacent channels.

    However, the situation has changed in several ways. For one, licensed broadcasters now use almost all of their assigned spectrum and you can have adjacent channels. For another, the 698MHz to 806MHz spectrum was auctioned off to private users and what spectrum was not bought was assigned for public safety first responder systems.

    Some people have taken the perspective that the situation with the 700MHz spectrum is no different than it was and that is easy to assume and in fact parts of that spectrum may be more open for awhile. However, that spectrum was auctioned with the clearly stated intent to limit the use to the successful bidders. Currently, the legislation to make this formal and specifically prohibit any other use is in limbo, likely put on hold due to the DTV transition delay, but chances are very good that it will be enacted. And don't think that Verizon, AT&T, QualComm, etc. will not be anxious to both use and aggressively protect the spectrum they paid billions of dollars to get. In know that QualComm was eager to expand their FloTV service to new areas as soon as possible after the DTV transition and were already dismayed by the delay there. I would not plan on any of the 700MHz spectrum staying open for long, it would simply be poor business to spend billions of dollars on that spectrum and then not use it.

    The FCC is trying to figure out how to accommodate the typical wireless mic users in the future and those that want to continue to try to 'get away' with using spectrum knowing that they really should be vacating probably does not help our case. I know that this may be a difficult perspective for some users to have, but I think that our all showing that we are willing to 'play nice with others' on the 700MHz spectrum may help in securing a better long term solution.
     
  10. Anonymous067

    Anonymous067 BANNED USER

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    I was hoping the same thing...

    A month ago, our head sound tech borrowed out some of our old VHF gear, and it got stolen from that venue (the venue that borrowed it).

    Christmas time for me, with insurance money and a credit card.....
     
  11. soundlight

    soundlight Well-Known Member

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    Haha, my high school still has some old Shure VP series stuff - dinky single antenna receivers and all. They're still working just fine with their second or third WL93 elements (the best cheap element out there!).
     
  12. Anonymous067

    Anonymous067 BANNED USER

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    Well said.
     
  13. Anonymous067

    Anonymous067 BANNED USER

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    So lets say I have a 1600 dollar IEM systems. Wireless.

    How do I go about LEGALLY licensing this, and how much does it cost?
     
  14. grumpytech

    grumpytech Member

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    you all rock.
    thank you for the many opinions on the subject. Keep them coming. I agree with the "when will you ever get that kind of discount" philosphy but I would never in a million years go from Senn. to Shure.:)
    Above all else...I want to stay legal and fine free.
    Cincinnati isnt a huge market but I am high on a hill next to one of the largest and strongest radio transmitters in the country (700wlw) which probably means this is a good area for MANY different towers.
    What to do what to do.
     
  15. mbenonis

    mbenonis Wireless Guy Administrator Premium Member

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    You can't, unfortunately, unless you are working for a TV station, cable company, or a movie producer. See above. :)
     
  16. Anonymous067

    Anonymous067 BANNED USER

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    Really? I could've swore it was somewhere in part 74 H or something like that....
    I remember reading it....i could have swore on it...hmph.
     
  17. mbenonis

    mbenonis Wireless Guy Administrator Premium Member

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    You're exactly right - Part 74 of the rules, Subpart H. In there (I copied and pasted it above), you'll see that only specific parties are eligible for licenses, and theatres are not among them.
     
  18. Anonymous067

    Anonymous067 BANNED USER

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    Not trying to argue, honestly. I just seem to remember reading something along the lines of "...you can get temporary and perm licenses for several freqs" and stuff like that.

    Maybe tonight I'll reread that part over again.

    I do trust your word, I just need to satisfy my own brain in reading it myself.
     
  19. mbenonis

    mbenonis Wireless Guy Administrator Premium Member

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    No argument taken at'tall. :)
     
  20. mixmaster

    mixmaster Active Member

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    While part 74 is very specific about who can get a license, there has also been talk of "someone" setting up a database for users of wireless mics, iem, comms, etc to register their frequencies for large scale, temporary events or production houses that use large blocks of frequencies regularly. However, it's my understanding that this is NOT a replacement for an FCC issued license to operate. It's simply a tool to assist with frequency coordination. Registering your frequencies, simply says that you were on that space first, and everyone else "should" stay clear. Last I heard the idea was still being debated, mostly from a standpoint of who would be required to participate and who would administer the database. It's also my understanding that this database would not cover the 700mhz spectrum either.
     

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