Sign silhouette - gobo or projector?

Painterspoon

Painterspoon

Member
I would like to project the shadow of a sign across the back wall of my set. Because the sign would only be visible for 2 minutes, I don't want to physically build it.

I have a DMX system with 60 dimmers and a Colortran 12/24 controller. Someone told me our system would never be able to handle a gobo, but I think they were talking about motorizing. I don't need the thing to move - I just want a crisp projection across the back wall, like the sun is shining through it.

Can I make a gobo for one of my Lekos? Is that ridiculously expensive?

I notice there are some DJ-type Chauvet lights where you can make your own paper gobo (?!?!) and was also wondering if they can be used effectively on stage and punch through some spill.

Any and all advice is welcome...I'm learning something every day on this forum!
 
When you say the shadow of the sign can you go into a bit more detail of what you're looking to achieve? What kind of lighting fixtures do you have available in your venue?

You might be able to make a pie tin gobo if your image is simple enough, but many places offer custom gobos for not too expensive. This website sells them for $56 That is a lot less than you'd pay for some DJ light which won't cut it.
 
I have Lekos, Fresnels, Par64s and scoops (sorry I can't be more specific at this time). I have a few multi-colour LEDs but they don't work well with our system because they flicker before they come on at full (they don't dim).
We are doing Cabaret next spring and I wanted to project the shadow of the Auschwitz "Arbeit macht frei" sign onto the set. But I don't want it on stage the entire time. The letters would be really finicky to cut out.

Was thinking the same thing about the DJ lights...they all look iffy.
 
Definitely something to consider! I can't seem to find UV paint that doesn't look neon when lit. Is there such a thing?
 
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No, UV paint works because it's phosphorescent in UV light; it's gonna glow.

I would look at a 'pie-tin' gobo: you can cut/punch a gobo out of those heavy foil baking pans they sell at grocery stores. It might not last for years (though some of our appear to have), but it will certainly survive a run (or you got the wrong type of pan :)).

You just need at least one profile light (generally an ellipsoidal, these days usually a Source4) that has a gobo slot at its focal point; you can't do this outside the fixture (just in case you didn't realize that).
 
Jay Ashworth said:
No, UV paint works because it's phosphorescent in UV light; it's gonna glow.

I would look at a 'pie-tin' gobo: you can cut/punch a gobo out of those heavy foil baking pans they sell at grocery stores. It might not last for years (though some of our appear to have), but it will certainly survive a run (or you got the wrong type of pan :)).

You just need at least one profile light (generally an ellipsoidal, these days usually a Source4) that has a gobo slot at its focal point; you can't do this outside the fixture (just in case you didn't realize that).
Click to expand...

Maybe I'll give it a shot with an exacto and pie tin before I do any ordering...I have an ETC Source4 that I'll play with. Does it automatically come with a gobo holder? I've never checked. Thanks for the input!
 
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Painterspoon said:
Maybe I'll give it a shot with an exacto and pie tin before I do any ordering...I have an ETC Source4 that I'll play with. Does it automatically come with a gobo holder? I've never checked. Thanks for the input!
Click to expand...
It doesn't ship with a gobo holder but for your experiment you could start with a rectangle of the heavy foil material and imagine a circle for your image. It will get hot in use so use care when removing.
 
From ETCconnect.com.
http://www.etcconnect.com/WorkArea/DownloadAsset.aspx?id=10737460535
S4PatternHolder.PNG
 
If you put the rectangle of pie plate in the gobo slot while the lens tube is out, you can lightly trace the circle of the gate exactly so you know exactly where to make your cuts, but I'm with @Pie4Weebl -- that's a lot of letters to cut neatly. I would bite the expense and get it made for you. I think your blood pressure will remain lower, you'll ultimately be much happier with the result
Jay Ashworth said:
No, UV paint works because it's phosphorescent in UV light; it's gonna glow.
Click to expand...
Has anyone tried the Rosco 'Invisible Blue" fluorescent paint recently? It was used on the floor of a production of Midsummer that I lit about a decade ago, and it disappeared quite nicely, although the floor had a variety of colours to break it up visually. Not sure how it would disappear on an evenly painted surface.
 
How detailed does this sign need to be? With a little experimentation, you could build a small model of the sign and shine a light through it. You would of course have to experiment a lot with various focal lengths (distance from model to fixture; distance from model to back wall of set), but it can work. I did a similar setup for the musical 9 to 5. The light source in the picture below was a 4.5" Times Square ellipsoidal on the 2nd electric (about 15' away from the clock), and the clock was flown about 6' downstage of the cyc. While your particular setup would vary, similar success could be possible with some tweaking.

IMG_1893.JPG
 
JohnD said:
What @Les describes is sort of like a Linnebach projector without the projector. Might be worth experimenting.
https://www.controlbooth.com/threads/linnebach-projector.9207/
Click to expand...

Or you could just make a Linnebach projector and use a piece of Plexi Glass with a sheet of Acetate on it with the "sign". You can buy Overhead Projector sheets that work with Laserjet or Inkjet printers. This allows you to print and change up the look of the sign without incurring major costs.
 
A bit off topic.
Back in the late 1990's when I was working in the UK I lit a Production of "Playing for Time". Its an Arthur Miller play set in a concentration camp. We built a set with wire mes walls barbed wire and spotlights and I had exactly the same bright idea. I ordered two gobo's from a custom gobo shop. Arbeit Macht Frie in Gothic script curved around a swastika. Two days later i received a phone call. "Mr Moore, this is Detective Sargeeant XXXXX (can't remember the name) from Special Branch. We have been advised that you have ordered devices that can be used for the projection of Nazi symbols. Could you please advise what you intend t do with them" I thought it was a p***take to be honest but after about 5 minutes of back and forth I realised he was for real and serious. (He had at one point told me I could be arrested if I failed to co operate.) I explained it was for a play about the second world war and that the gobos would only be used in the theatre for performances of the play and he finally went away.
By the way, I used a Source 4 and a steel custom gobo.
 
Logos said:
A bit off topic.
Back in the late 1990's when I was working in the UK I lit a Production of "Playing for Time". Its an Arthur Miller play set in a concentration camp. We built a set with wire mes walls barbed wire and spotlights and I had exactly the same bright idea. I ordered two gobo's from a custom gobo shop. Arbeit Macht Frie in Gothic script curved around a swastika. Two days later i received a phone call. "Mr Moore, this is Detective Sargeeant XXXXX (can't remember the name) from Special Branch. We have been advised that you have ordered devices that can be used for the projection of Nazi symbols. Could you please advise what you intend t do with them" I thought it was a p***take to be honest but after about 5 minutes of back and forth I realised he was for real and serious. (He had at one point told me I could be arrested if I failed to co operate.) I explained it was for a play about the second world war and that the gobos would only be used in the theatre for performances of the play and he finally went away.
By the way, I used a Source 4 and a steel custom gobo.
Click to expand...

And now you can order a standard swastika gobo straight out of the catalog, thanks to The Producers. I've seen confetti, too.

http://www.apollodesign.net/swastika.html
 
Logos said:
A bit off topic.
Back in the late 1990's when I was working in the UK I lit a Production of "Playing for Time". Its an Arthur Miller play set in a concentration camp. We built a set with wire mes walls barbed wire and spotlights and I had exactly the same bright idea. I ordered two gobo's from a custom gobo shop. Arbeit Macht Frie in Gothic script curved around a swastika. Two days later i received a phone call. "Mr Moore, this is Detective Sargeeant XXXXX (can't remember the name) from Special Branch. We have been advised that you have ordered devices that can be used for the projection of Nazi symbols. Could you please advise what you intend t do with them" I thought it was a p***take to be honest but after about 5 minutes of back and forth I realised he was for real and serious. (He had at one point told me I could be arrested if I failed to co operate.) I explained it was for a play about the second world war and that the gobos would only be used in the theatre for performances of the play and he finally went away.
By the way, I used a Source 4 and a steel custom gobo.
Click to expand...

haha - I didn't even consider this as a possibility! Wonder if they still have that gobo... ;-)
 
Custom gobos are cheap enough that unless you're very bored, making something yourself isn't worth your time, and the result will be poor.

Steel gobos are ok and a little bit cheaper, but they expand and bow when they get hot, so you can only focus part of the image - the rest is bent out of the focal plane. Glass gobos do not have this problem and are better in every way - no tabs holding the center of Os and other letters with enclosed space together, better resolution, longer life, etc. the only down sides are slightly higher cost and they break when dropped.

I have used gobostogo.com, inlightgobos and Apollo. All are good.
 
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