BillConnerFASTC
Well-Known Member
I wondered if 4-6 clip lights with smart bulbs and an I-Phone wouldn't be a simple and safe approach.
Control/Dimming Simple lighting question...help!? Limited resources...
- Thread starterktflem
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Aaron Clarke
Well-Known Member
Now Now, we all know the same can be done with commercial dimming equipment as well. Just because you buy some 'professional' dimming and control equipment doesn't make it any safer if its not properly used.
I don't disagree with anyone but with the proper knowledge and experience I put it out there as an option.
I again disagree - using listed products for their listed purpose is measurably safer than putting together home-made junk. The entire point of the listing process is to evaluate all the ways a device can fail or be misused by the end users, and the device must be able to handle these without creating a life safety issue. It's not even close to the same thing.
And then there's the cost of your liability insurance for when the families of the departed sue.
Toodleoo!
Ron Hebbard.
Possibly you could provide a link to one of your "digitally controlled variac type thing"s.
Toodleoo!
Ron Hebbard.
Aaron Clarke
Well-Known Member
Back to the OP's questions.
Options-
A) What TJ talks about. You still have to figure how much power you need to feed each dimmer pack, how much you can run on it and where it comes from.
B) If that's not within your budget and your venue is in a building or fixed structure with electrical available there. Get a licensed electrician to run outlets near where you want lights to be. Have him wire for 20amp circuits (12g) . For now those runs can be on dimmers and the circuit breaker sized accordingly. Then when there is money for dimmers packs and a board or other control options an electrician just needs to remove the dimmers and swap the breakers to 20 amp and you now have power right where your dimmer pack is. If you can find a volunteer electrician or even one that would donate materials, this can be rather inexpensive. He could even wire everything to be powered from a generator disconnect if power is not on site.
C) Ignore what I said before to appease the pros
.
Options-
A) What TJ talks about. You still have to figure how much power you need to feed each dimmer pack, how much you can run on it and where it comes from.
B) If that's not within your budget and your venue is in a building or fixed structure with electrical available there. Get a licensed electrician to run outlets near where you want lights to be. Have him wire for 20amp circuits (12g) . For now those runs can be on dimmers and the circuit breaker sized accordingly. Then when there is money for dimmers packs and a board or other control options an electrician just needs to remove the dimmers and swap the breakers to 20 amp and you now have power right where your dimmer pack is. If you can find a volunteer electrician or even one that would donate materials, this can be rather inexpensive. He could even wire everything to be powered from a generator disconnect if power is not on site.
C) Ignore what I said before to appease the pros
.
C) Ignore what I said before to appease the pros
To quote from the Lighting Forum FAQ:
"Since lighting questions often go hand-in-hand with electrical questions please be aware that it is a global CB policy to not give out "How-to" information with regard to electrical situations. As we strive for member safety and to avoid liability this means that the community cannot tell you how to wire up your dimmers or even your desk lamp."
Pretty sure the mods are either napping or just sitting back to see where this goes...
I definitely appreciate your and Nast's urge to want to solve the problem and that is something I encourage in all my students, but in instances like this it is best to keep the advice limited to what can't get you or CB sued if things go wrong. In this case, it is UL listed devices.
Aaron - I'm not trying to pick on you, but for the OP's purpose, it's really no more complicated than buying a couple portable dimmer packs and a basic light board. Total cost should be less than $400 new, probably less via Craigslist since everyone is dumping dimming in favor of LED. Any permanent electrical work will cost more than this, and a permanently installed dimmer rack is not feasible nor required considering the OP is bringing in portable lighting trees. The only question is what is the wattage of the par cans the OP has, and choosing dimmers with adequate capacity, or alternatively lamping them down so they work with inexpensive packs. Any fixture 500w or less will be fine, and considering the current use of power strips, I highly doubt the lights in question are more than this.Back to the OP's questions.
Options-
A) What TJ talks about. You still have to figure how much power you need to feed each dimmer pack, how much you can run on it and where it comes from.
B) If that's not within your budget and your venue is in a building or fixed structure with electrical available there. Get a licensed electrician to run outlets near where you want lights to be. Have him wire for 20amp circuits (12g) . For now those runs can be on dimmers and the circuit breaker sized accordingly. Then when there is money for dimmers packs and a board or other control options an electrician just needs to remove the dimmers and swap the breakers to 20 amp and you now have power right where your dimmer pack is. If you can find a volunteer electrician or even one that would donate materials, this can be rather inexpensive. He could even wire everything to be powered from a generator disconnect if power is not on site.
C) Ignore what I said before to appease the pros
Edit - this is the perfect situation for an older Microplex system. These are worth practically nothing, and good quality equipment was made by NSI/Leviton and Leprecon. If the OP can find an old NSI 7000-series light board and MPX packs, they would have a very solid system virtually for free.
I sold a Leprecon LP624 lighting board and 4 6-channel MPX packs for $600 earlier this year as a datapoint. Maybe someone on the forum here has something in the closet they would be willing to let go of?
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And, unless I've missed it, no one has brought up de-rating of household dimmers when mounted adjacent to one another in multi-gang boxes. I believe the typical 600 Watt household dimmers require de-rating when mounted in pairs, triples, quads and more. And then there're code requirements for type S, and heavier service, cables. I'm still cringing at someone posting advising the use of nylon jacketed, solid conductor, wiring for theatrical applications. One of our posters toots his horn like he actually knows what he's talking about and I worry some poor innocent is going to believe him. I've found I learn best with my ears open and my mouth closed. I'd suggest this to some of our posters but I'm afraid I'd be wasting my breath as their mouths are too busy flapping too loudly.
Carry the banner high T.J. @TJCornish
Time to get back in my hole and lower my bloodpressure.
Toodleoo!
Ron Hebbard.
Aaron Clarke
Well-Known Member
@TJCornish. I take nothing you say personally. Discussion is the purpose of this forum and we all learn from each other- admittedly it can be lopsided
. Some very good points were made about my advice and I can't really argue.My advice about running some outlets would only be cost effect if labor (and maybe materials) were donated and my suggestion was to wire them for not for installed dimmers in the future but so that they could have a constant 20amp power source to power the future tree dimmers where the lights will be vs. running extension cords to them every time you need them powered.
Amiers
Renting to Corporate One Fixture at a Time.
We'll this thread escalated fast.
My suggestion is whoever donated the pars to you maybe point you in the right direction of how to use them properly.
If that isn't an option or they know nothing about what is donated to you reach out to a theatre supply house and explain your wants and needs and see what they can do for you.
Hopefully you come back to this thread and take in that home made isn't the way to go in your situation.
Be safe.
My suggestion is whoever donated the pars to you maybe point you in the right direction of how to use them properly.
If that isn't an option or they know nothing about what is donated to you reach out to a theatre supply house and explain your wants and needs and see what they can do for you.
Hopefully you come back to this thread and take in that home made isn't the way to go in your situation.
Be safe.
TNasty
Active Member
That was one of my "bad morning ideas" right there. Pardon me on that.
You're correct about my signature (well, my description says that, not my sig) and my other posts. To clarify- I'm currently graduating high school, and will be entering Penn State this fall to study electrical engineering, and I have quite a bit of background knowledge of electricity and circuitry.
Note how I don't say electrician. I know the basic wiring stuff when it comes to your 120/240v grid work, but I am by no means educated on the formalities of electrical code. There's a difference between an EE and a licensed Electrician.
Something like this: http://variac.com/staco_variable_transformer_1000_1200.htm
But at this point it's literally just reinventing the dimmer, specifically the old school servo dimmers.
Words to live by.
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BillConnerFASTC
Well-Known Member
Lets take a step back and acknowledge the OP has not returned, albeit it was noon today and they may not be as addicted to CB yet as some of us seem to be. While wallbox dimmers don't seem like a good value, as I would guess not all would last one summer, a neatly and competently assembled "box" with dimmers and receptacles is probably no more of a hazard than plugging and unplugging for control as is currently the practice.
We don't know a lot. Is this an assembly occupancy (by either IBC/LSC - 50 - or NEC - 100) and a stage as such. What are the fixtures with what lamps they've been given and how many really. What power is available. And so on.
To the OP, welcome, what you want to do is fine, but you may not be able to do it on the cheap, and there is a lot of important facts not shared. We don't want enthusiasm to become a hazard.
And to Ed, maybe you saw the same patch panel (this was 1992) I saw that had circuits added and was so tight they had installed fans in the raceway to keep it from overheating - again. Gone now.
And good think there were no i-phones and internet when I was in college. Oh my - the things we did. Just when you thought it was safe to come back to the theatre......
We don't know a lot. Is this an assembly occupancy (by either IBC/LSC - 50 - or NEC - 100) and a stage as such. What are the fixtures with what lamps they've been given and how many really. What power is available. And so on.
To the OP, welcome, what you want to do is fine, but you may not be able to do it on the cheap, and there is a lot of important facts not shared. We don't want enthusiasm to become a hazard.
And to Ed, maybe you saw the same patch panel (this was 1992) I saw that had circuits added and was so tight they had installed fans in the raceway to keep it from overheating - again. Gone now.
And good think there were no i-phones and internet when I was in college. Oh my - the things we did. Just when you thought it was safe to come back to the theatre......
As of right now you're neither, so if it were me, I would change or remove your occupation. 4 years from now when you've earned it, you can put it back.
The final semester of high school is typically the peak of self-confidence. Enjoy it while it lasts, then get ready for multiple decades of realizing you know less than you think you know.
Not in any way that is important. Self-confidence, hair, and physical attractiveness possibly. Value to the universe- definitely not.
Care to explain how your example is "digitally controlled" or "servo"?
Toodleoo!
Ron Hebbard.
