SJO cable in a theater

you cannot ever, ever, ever use a regular 'outlet box' like what you would attach to a building such as a 4S box, or outdoor junction box as some use. You have to use a proper pendant box like those from Woodhead, Hubbell, and others. While it does violate the NEC technically via listed use of the box, OSHA specifically prohibits it.

1900 type quad boxes when I see them are destroyed and not sent back to the company that made them even if marked as to owner when they don't get back to the owner. Very much dislike of such boxes in having seen knockouts broken and coming close to if not shorting to a terminal. Bell Box types and other gear, perhaps dependant on workmanship. Past inspector for us in powering up a work table required indicator lights on such a quad box so as to tell when live I expect. For more my norm, anything I might make or accept requires no more than a three foot extension an an indicator light on it.

By code also I believe it is a 36" maximum length on stage for SJ type cable which would allow for fanouts and adaptors in general.
 
1900 type quad boxes when I see them are destroyed and not sent back to the company that made them even if marked as to owner when they don't get back to the owner. Very much dislike of such boxes in having seen knockouts broken and coming close to if not shorting to a terminal. Bell Box types and other gear, perhaps dependant on workmanship. Past inspector for us in powering up a work table required indicator lights on such a quad box so as to tell when live I expect. For more my norm, anything I might make or accept requires no more than a three foot extension an an indicator light on it.

By code also I believe it is a 36" maximum length on stage for SJ type cable which would allow for fanouts and adaptors in general.

Bell boxes are not ok either, I admittedly have some which I use in certain temporary power applications (they are very well assembled with real cable glands, loctite on threads, etc) but the only thing thats legal to use is a listed pendant box.

Here is the osha reg on the matter
"boxing intended for use in a permanent installation may not be used (1910.303(b)(1)(i) and 1926.403(b)(1)(i)); "
basically anything but a proper pendant box is out.

As far as the allowed length of junior cord, I checked the 2005 NEC -I was wrong. 3.3ft is the max allowed length for adapters and twofers. A breakout can have junior cord as long as the longest tail is no more than 20 feet. I dont know where I got six feet from......
 
Bell boxes are not ok either, I admittedly have some which I use in certain temporary power applications (they are very well assembled with real cable glands, loctite on threads, etc) but the only thing thats legal to use is a listed pendant box.

Here is the osha reg on the matter
"boxing intended for use in a permanent installation may not be used (1910.303(b)(1)(i) and 1926.403(b)(1)(i)); "
basically anything but a proper pendant box is out.

As far as the allowed length of junior cord, I checked the 2005 NEC -I was wrong. 3.3ft is the max allowed length for adapters and twofers. A breakout can have junior cord as long as the longest tail is no more than 20 feet. I dont know where I got six feet from......

Agreed on the Bell box but in use over a 1900 box for temp. service and I do think the code or regulation should change on this if other than perminant install dependant on the situation.

Also remember notes to the NEC about SJ cable supported by truss but it could be in part of the 20' though rarely is a truss that short. Not for a cable drop though that's mostly ignored if only a few where a Soco cable isn't used, and I do fight constantly people using SJ cable on the deck but don't do shows and that's common for touring.

Beyond regulation is enforcement and training in my opionion. Rejected something that doesn't have the new fire marshall walked out the door (as told about), or tech people not doing what is not permissible is the key. Primary concern about a 1900 box is that some knockout will get knocked in and touch a terminal as I have seen and good reason for it not being allowed. Bell box and well done, I would say a reason for its use. Some drop box with like $60.00 strain relief alone for a quad box, probably not the best solution if other ways are easier and just as safe.


On the other hand, if in a static space doing it properly is the correct and proper way to do it and road show and temporary stuff situation does not apply.
 
A follow up question to this fantastic old thread with a new LED twist.

In my theater I have switchable non-dim circuits with nema 5-15 plugs. I want to run an extension cord from a non-dim about 60 feet to a 6 way splitter and then from there to 6 LED Pars (total of 148 watts each for a total of 880 watts/7.4 amps).

I assume I need to use SO cable for the main cord (no SJ exceptions for LED's on non-dims right?). From the charts I see, it looks like 12/3 should be able to handle at least 15 amps at 60 foot length, so I'm great with only a 7.4 amp load. My question is what is the proper way to deal with the 6 way splitter. I'm pretty sure it's not okay to build my own 6 gang box at Home depot and it's not okay to just buy any old power strip. So what is the appropriate way to split my power 6 ways at the end of the cable?

Thanks!
 
An Edison twofer and two of these:
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Better yet convince the money people you need a Lex E-String or two.
http://www.productionadvantageonline.com/Products/50116BA.aspx
However the hard usage cable they use is STW, not SO, but still I think it is a good thing to have, for band backline and such.
 
E-strings are great but won't do what I want.

To be more clear if I can't use an off the shelf power strip, this is what I would like to do. I've got three side ladders with two LED PARs on each ladder. What I would like to do is run the SO into a dual gang Junction box, split it into three lines inside. Each of the three lines runs to a single gang Junction box with two outlets.

But I want to do this right.
 
No thru on the LED units? That is a bummer.

I HATE metal junction boxes onstage for so many reasons, they should be avoided. The plastic ones are out there. They are not cheap but they can found.

The "right" way to do this is really up for discussion. I'm going to be interested to see how much longer the SO cable thing lasts now that we are moving to smaller loads that produce less heat. I would buy a few of these: http://whirlwindusa.com/catalog/power-electrical-distribution/edison-boxes/pl1-420-wh . Lex makes the same thing. Drop a box at your first position, run to your next, drop a box, continue. You could also go with the more traditional "doghouse" approach using L5-20's. http://www.lexproducts.com/products...-amp-doghouse-to-duplex-receptacles-feed-thru
 
I'm going to be interested to see how much longer the SO cable thing lasts now that we are moving to smaller loads that produce less heat.

I think the SO or SOOW is here to stay. Its my understanding that the lettering has more to do with how well the jacket will protect the conductors than the ability to hold up to heat. It is possible to get 18/3 SOOW for lower wattage loads.
 
I think the SO or SOOW is here to stay. Its my understanding that the lettering has more to do with how well the jacket will protect the conductors than the ability to hold up to heat. It is possible to get 18/3 SOOW for lower wattage loads.

Well aware of that. However, with the number of exceptions out there for to allow for SJ cable I'm not really sure if I see the point anymore. The whip of a fixture and a lead of a soca breakout get the most abuse out of any cabling and yet we are OK with SJ there. Just don't run SJ between the two. I do get the point of the SO everywhere stuff. We spent 30k on cable to ensure we had SO everywhere just a few years ago. We are already in the phase where we are running powercon or powercon-True1 on everything and daisy chaining. Unless there is someone doing it that I'm not aware of, I have only seen those jumpers built out of SJ cable. Both Lex and Whirlwind do SJ as standard on these types of connectors. It might not be right, but it is being done. I put it right up there with the 3 pin DMX thing. Might not be right, but it became industry standard anyway.
 
I think the code compliant way to do this kind of distro is to use plastic boxes such as these:

http://www.molex.com/woodhead/produ...boxes&channel=products&pageTitle=Introduction

They are indeed pricey, but also very durable, requiring very little maintenance long term. They do come in black and can be built to provide a pass-thru connection for daisy chaining. I only wish Lex Products manufactured something similar.

Lex does, it is just not a catalog item. They will build the traditional quad box with a SO lead. Motion labs and Whirlwind will do it as well. I don't know why it is not a catalog item but there ya have it.
 
Lex does, it is just not a catalog item. They will build the traditional quad box with a SO lead. Motion labs and Whirlwind will do it as well. I don't know why it is not a catalog item but there ya have it.

If anybody from Lex is listening, you 'all need to update your website for this stuff. I'm as likely to call my electrical supplier for the assorted parts and to get pricing, as I would be to call a Lex dealer to get pricing. If it was on the website I could readily access product numbers. Makes life easier when specifying and budgeting . Rant over.
 
Well aware of that. However, with the number of exceptions out there for to allow for SJ cable I'm not really sure if I see the point anymore. The whip of a fixture and a lead of a soca breakout get the most abuse out of any cabling and yet we are OK with SJ there. Just don't run SJ between the two. I do get the point of the SO everywhere stuff. We spent 30k on cable to ensure we had SO everywhere just a few years ago. We are already in the phase where we are running powercon or powercon-True1 on everything and daisy chaining. Unless there is someone doing it that I'm not aware of, I have only seen those jumpers built out of SJ cable. Both Lex and Whirlwind do SJ as standard on these types of connectors. It might not be right, but it is being done. I put it right up there with the 3 pin DMX thing. Might not be right, but it became industry standard anyway.

The exceptions allowing SJ and derivatives are quite restrictive. The vast majority of cables in the theatre still need to be type S or derivatives

Late breaking news: Note that SJ and derivatives are currently allowed for luminaire supply cords up to 1.0 m (3.3'). There is a proposal in for the 2017 NEC which would increase this length to 2.0 m (6.6'). It has already passed the First Draft phase of the process. Curiously, I wrote that proposal. If allowed, I think it will improve the utility of our systems without a safety compromise.

However, I don't agree that luminaire cords and breakouts "get the most abuse out of any cabling....." They are not subject to crush and slit hazards in the same way that long jumpers in the path of rolling or flying scenery are.

Finally, while some people may not like the Extra Hard Usage requirement, it's currently mandated by the NEC, which means it's the rule with no options for article 520 venues. This is not comparable to the 3-pin vs. 5-pin DMX cable example, where there is no Code involved.

As I've said before, if you want to change the NEC, submit a Public Input with compelling evidence as to why the requirement should be relaxed. Your first opportunity will be for the 2020 NEC. But meanwhile, please don't suggest or imply on this forum that non-NEC-compliant solutions are OK because they are common practice.

ST
 
Thanks @BillESC I'm liking what I see on the Windsor Website. 150 feet of 12/3 SOOW a few of those boxes and I can build some REALLY nice custom cables that are very high quality and to code.
 
With the smaller loads, I suspect we will start seeing 16/3 S and SO used. Some venues put a base at 12/3, but it is my understanding that portable cable is load dependent. (Don't remember the thread where this was hashed out, but that was the conclusion.) Most venues didn't expect to be dealing with loads 200 watts and under like we are now.
 
Update . . .

Ken, the owner of OA Windsor has health issues and production of boxes has stopped. There are a few of his friends that will look into restarting production. I'm trying to get a inventory count and will let you know when I find out.
 
I agree about the Indu Electric stuff.
I have been buying it for years, and find it to be top notch.
Their portable distros, as well as cable assemblies are fantastic.
 

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