Small Cheap Sound Board?

[soundlight]

Nady is actually WORSE than Behringer from my experience. However, I have a Samson Mixpad 12 (legacy product), and it serves me well. Pretty clean little board, and it has alot of miles on it. With 6 mic inputs and 3 stereo inputs, 2 auxes and 2 stereo returns, it's a pretty loaded board for its size. The only problem is that there's no mid EQ.

 

[avkid]

Nady and Sampson also make some funky cheap gear. It's not great either but you can at least buy it guilt free.

Nady is as close to Behringer knockoffs as one can get.
Samson is hit or miss, we have some dual 15 band eq's that are fairly responsive but contribute a ton of noise to the system.
Just research before you buy!

 

[derekleffew]

Sounds akin to replacing a Buick with a Kia.

 

[jkowtko]

Back to the original question and price point ($75) ... Behringer does make a lot of inexpensive equipment, and they can't be 100% bad because they're still in business. Granted, not high end, and maybe prone to problems, so treat it gently, and buy from a local shop if possible, or one that has a good warranty repair policy. Or find a used one dirt cheap, test it out thoroughly before you buy it, and expect it won't last too long. (Even a new one, I guess, don't plan on it lasting for more than a year).

The 802, 1002, 1202, 1002FX, or 1202FX are inexpensive units that can handle a handful of mics and line inputs. The FX has onboard sound effects as well.

Just remember the usual adage -- "you get what you pay for" in terms of audio quality and reliability. But bottom line is that the unit should still function.

 

[avkid]

But bottom line is that the unit should still function.

There is absolutely no question that it will function, the question is for how long will it continue to?

 

[soundlight]

But bottom line is that the unit should still function.

Unless all 5 of the UB/SL series that I've worked with have been flukes of production, no, they don't function. I consider the mute buttons not muting a signal not functioning.

I'm not saying that Behringer is the end of the world in all departments - their EQ's aren't the total end of the world, their B5 condenser mic is comparable to a Shure PG81 on drum overheads (though who wouldn't buy the shure at the same price!), and their EP series of power amps are actually pretty solid, and the 2500 can take a 2 ohm load and run all night without having any problems. And their older (MX2442, MX3282) mixers are pretty decent. But the UB and Xenyx series of mixers are just the end...there are so many other things that are less than a stone's throw away in price that it's not worth it. Their speakers are also really substandard and their lower end EQs leave much to be desired.

 

[howlingwolf487]

Go with a Mackie...I guarantee you will NEVER regret paying a bit more for it.

 

[Synchronize]

We have a really nice Mackie 1604-VLZ3 16 Channel mixer. We all love it. Our setup is kind of crap because our school has no money .

We have an auditeria, Auditorium/Cafateria. The way the wiering was set up when the auditeria was built is garbage. From the lightbooth, which is way in the back left corner of the auditeria, your can only see half the stage and hear nothing. So what do they do? They put all of the amps, CD player, and all of the wiering back there. Then the house speakers are hard wiered into the amps. The backstage moniters are hard wiered into another amp backstage. (Or something like that... I'm the light engineer, I just dabble in sound.) So two years ago we got the new sound board. Then we got two new speakers to put up on the stage so we dont need the crappy house speakers. This year we finally got a long ***** snake so we can put the sound board in the middle of the auditeria and run the snake up to the stage. We can run the a mic cable fromt he poard into a mic input to get sound through the house if we have to. But since we have limited space around the sound board we have no room for for sound effects equipment. So we just want a small board to keep back in the light booth that we can run a mic in the booth and the sound effects equipment through the house speakers with. What would best suit that?

 

[derekleffew]

This may be too simple and idiot-proof for you, but check out all that RDL makes, specifically the ST-UMX3 Universal Mixer. (You'd also need the PS24V power supply for $18.99). Every sound system in every hotel here in Las Vegas uses an RDL "Stick-On" for some purpose.

Edit: Link fixed. I'll try to be more careful next time; second time in two days, I need to give myself a 1/2 demerit.

 

[soundlight]

If you can, put the sound effects equipment under the sound board in a rack, which can be had for about a hundred dollars (for a shallow SKB roto-molded rack). This is the way that I'd do it.

And Derek, check your RDL link. It has a controlbooth link in front of it followed by the RDL link, so it doesn't work.

 

[Hughesie]

Guess who got a new Nady wireless mic system?

It's to replace the Shures...

 

[museav]

We have a really nice Mackie 1604-VLZ3 16 Channel mixer. We all love it. Our setup is kind of crap because our school has no money .
We have an auditeria, Auditorium/Cafateria. The way the wiering was set up when the auditeria was built is garbage. From the lightbooth, which is way in the back left corner of the auditeria, your can only see half the stage and hear nothing. So what do they do? They put all of the amps, CD player, and all of the wiering back there. Then the house speakers are hard wiered into the amps. The backstage moniters are hard wiered into another amp backstage. (Or something like that... I'm the light engineer, I just dabble in sound.) So two years ago we got the new sound board. Then we got two new speakers to put up on the stage so we dont need the crappy house speakers. This year we finally got a long ***** snake so we can put the sound board in the middle of the auditeria and run the snake up to the stage. We can run the a mic cable fromt he poard into a mic input to get sound through the house if we have to. But since we have limited space around the sound board we have no room for for sound effects equipment. So we just want a small board to keep back in the light booth that we can run a mic in the booth and the sound effects equipment through the house speakers with. What would best suit that?

I appreciate your enthusiasm and passion and offer the following comments only to potentially help and protect you and others.

First, just to get it out of the way, I doubt you are a "Light Engineer". Lighting is traditionally part of Electrical Engineering and especially when addressing system design and installation rather than system operation, you probably should not be using the title Engineer without having first earned it through the appropriate education, experience and license. Illinois law seems to agree on this.

You seem to perhaps be making a lot of assumptions on what is "garbage" and what is proper based on very limited actual relevant knowledge and experience, especially in regards to installation practices and code compliance. For example, I have had many public projects that would prohibit a temporary snake across the floor in this type of application due to the liability it presents as a trip hazard (I would usually instead have connections for the console on a rear or side wall so that the mixer could be located there with the snake run a very short distance directly to the mixer without crossing an occupied floor area). And some of the other comments make me curious as to how the new speakers were installed and if they are properly mounted and installed, much less how everything is wired. Being a school application, there may be safety and code aspects of which you apparently simply aren't aware.

Adding a cheap mixing console to the system as planned just doesn't seem like a good idea. It will make the system much more susceptible to problems and more difficult to use. It will also make the system performance limited by that one device. Of course, I'm not sure if you are running the system stereo or mono since you mentioned adding two speakers but then also mentioned running the Mackie output into a mic input, which would also be running line level into a mic level input and not a good idea. If you had to have an intermediate mixer, I would look at something simple like a Rane MLM82S or MLM803, Ashly MX-406 or TOA M-243. Ideally, you might consider a matrix DSP device that could provide some automixing for basic function and some system processing as well as tie in the Mackie.

I noted the comment regarding having no room for sound effects equipment. What stands out to me here is the concern with sound effects while there is no mention of any system processing. I would certainly look at incorporating some system processing (EQ, limiting, etc.) before I would be spending money to address effects.

Do you have a long term plan for the audio systems? Are the changes already made and being considered a part of this plan? Are they being documented along the way so that others have a record of the system? Who is designing any changes, defining the wiring practices, documenting the system and any changes, adjusting system gain structure and processing settings, etc.? It sounds like this could easily become the all too common situation of creating as many problems as you fix, especially for those coming later. If it is not properly thought through, what you do now could easily postpone other improvements or increase the cost of future projects I really suggest that you consider getting a qualified Consultant or Contractor to help you develop an overall plan for the system and to perform some of the work, especially when it comes to things like mounting speakers. I realize that budget is tight and that you often have to do what you can with what you have, but there is a time and place for that and then there are times that it simply shouldn't be done if it can't be done right. Getting a professional in may also provide a potential learning opportunity.

So I recognize your willingness to "do what it takes" and to try to come up with cost effective solutions, but I think you may be getting to where you simply don't know what you don't know and should really get some professional assistance.

 

[Synchronize]

When they built our highschool they did so in a very quick and hurried fashion. They cut funding where ever they could, and sadly that means everthing that had to do with the arts. We had all of our cables running through the walls, then comming out into the booth. Problem is that the booth is back in the corner, ther are all of the light controls back there (including a very large, intrusive box that contains all of the circuit breakers for the lights that has a very large fan in it that makes tons of noise.) So basically when you have the mixer in the booth you cant EQ because you cant hear anything. That is why we got the new snake, run it up to the stage from the center of the auditeria, then take it back down after the show.

As for:

I realize that budget is tight and that you often have to do what you can with what you have, but there is a time and place for that and then there are times that it simply shouldn't be done if it can't be done right. Getting a professional in may also provide a potential learning opportunity.

Things arnt done right already. Things werent done right when the building was built. Nothing is labled in the booth wiering wise. Our drama dept doenst even have a buget. Everythign that we get new tech wise, me and the sound guy buy ourselfs. So thats why I'm trying to keep it cheap.

So I recognize your willingness to "do what it takes" and to try to come up with cost effective solutions, but I think you may be getting to where you simply don't know what you don't know and should really get some professional assistance.

And how can I pay for that? And what is getting a professional going to do for me? All I want is a small sound board to run some effects through the old system and out the house speakers.

 

[museav]

Bluntly, not having money to do it right isn't a legitimate excuse if what you do potentially hurts someone or makes it more difficult for others.

I could be wrong, but issues such as the wiring apparently still having no numbers, that there has apparently been no attempt to develop any system documentation, and that you made changes to the system for your immediate benefit that have subsequently led to other implications that you are trying to address after the fact and with no real budget at least indicate that a long term or overall perspective on the system has been absent.

It is also all too easy in your situation to look at things from the perspective of more immediate needs, after all you're only there a few years and then it is somebody else's problem. For example, the changes you have made to the audio system may benefit you immediately but are they potentially creating problems or making it more difficult for others? Has making a basic announcement or supporting a small panel discussion or playing background music gone from plugging in a mic or two or starting a CD and using a wall mount volume control to requiring a tech setting up a mixer and snake? Maybe not, but these are the kind of issues where having someone involved with a broader perspective and no particular agenda may help.

I constantly deal with clients that don't have the money to do what they want or even need. Instead of throwing something together that simply fits their budget, I instead try to develop an overall solution for them that that allows them eventually obtain their overall goals while initially implementing the immediately critical aspects within their current budget. The focus is on providing a plan and path to achieve the desired goals rather than just addressing short term issues or spending whatever funds they do have. At least in my experience, you may want to consider what you want to do long term and put together a plan, then try to implement that plan. This can have several benefits.

First, you quite likely already have what you have because they tried to "make do" with limited funding. Complaining that what is there is not right and was not a well considered solution while essentially continuing that same approach makes no sense. So a first step might be to address some of the core existing issues so that you have a good starting point. Have you tried creating some documentation of the system and installing some cable numbers? That doesn't have a big cost beyond your effort and would seem to potentially greatly benefit you and others. Maybe you can do some inexpensive things to address some existing issues and to start outlining where you want to go so that the next person has a better basis to work from than you did.

Another potential benefit relates to funding. Have you talked to the school management or the local board and maybe presented them an organized plan with some realistic goals and budgets? Have you tried fund raisers or getting donations for a specific aspect or project? You might have better luck if you were to try to get donations or funding for something that is well planned and defined than you do trying to simply get general funding or money simply assigned to a new piece of equipment. Many people seem to have more success getting funding or donations when they show a well thought out plan and the potential benefits of it rather than in just focusing on buying new stuff they want.

Also, remember that every dollar you spend on interim fixes may mean one more you have to raise again. So consider whether what you are doing is a real fix, simply a work around that may postpone a real fix or even something that might require other changes to make work effectively. I've seen many people spend more money over the years with interim fixes while never getting the result they wanted than they would have spent by saving their money and doing it right once. And again, it probably wouldn't hurt when you try to get funding to be able to show how what you are requesting resolves existing problems and fits into a long term plan. For example, in your particular case, instead of using your limited funds to buy an inexpensive mixer simply based on the cost, you might want to consider what the mixer really should do to serve everyone and then present an appropriate solution for funding showing that it is something that is well thought out and would benefit more than just your use.

Finally, there can be safety issues involved and this is something that needs to be considered very seriously. How are the new speakers mounted? Are they code compliant? Were they installed by someone who knows what they are doing and has some experience? If not, my suggestion is to pull them down immediately before there is an accident and/or the school gets sued. Safety is one area where doing it right is mandatory and should not be compromised due to the budget.

Sorry if I seem to be lecturing, but the goal is to maybe get you out of the mode of approaching everything as its own isolated issue and to take a bigger picture look at what can be done and how it may best be approached. Based on my experience, you would likely benefit from this in numerous ways.

 

[Synchronize]

I think you have the wrong impression of our system and what I'm trying to do. We have not made ANY changes to the original system. We basically made a whole new one. We got new moniters, new speakers to set on stage, new sound board, new cd players, new amps... all out of the limited budget over like three years. Thats so that we didn't have to deal with the old system. The old system is still in its original state. When the prinicpal wants to make a quick announcement at lunch he just has to go backstage, turn on the original amp, plug a mic in the wall socket, and talk.

All I want is a small sound board to run a mic and some sound effect boards throught that same original system.

 

[soundlight]

If that's what you want to do, the Tapco MIX120 is what you want. It can be had for $100, and is a great little board. Far above Behringer for not much more money. If you only need two mic inputs and not four, go for the MIX100.

 

[museav]

I think you have the wrong impression of our system and what I'm trying to do. We have not made ANY changes to the original system. We basically made a whole new one. We got new moniters, new speakers to set on stage, new sound board, new cd players, new amps... all out of the limited budget over like three years. Thats so that we didn't have to deal with the old system. The old system is still in its original state. When the prinicpal wants to make a quick announcement at lunch he just has to go backstage, turn on the original amp, plug a mic in the wall socket, and talk.

I indeed took some of your comments to indicate that you were modifying and adapting the existing system. Sorry for the misunderstanding.

All I want is a small sound board to run a mic and some sound effect boards throught that same original system.

I still don't get what you're trying to do. If the two systems are separate and you can use the old system with a mic then doesn't that existing system already have a mixer? If you need more capability for some applications then couldn't you run the Mackie output directly into the existing system using a DI box? What "sound effect boards" are you trying to run into the existing system? Is this mixer something that would be used in addition to the Mackie, in place of the Mackie or as part of the 'house' system? I'm just trying to understand the actual purpose of this additional mixer and where it fits in the system(s) so that we can establish the appropriate quantity and type of inputs and outputs, as well as an appropriate level of operator interface, for the application.

 

[Synchronize]

The old sound board, unfortunatly... broke, for a lack of better term. Its not a bad thing... it was a piece of Soundcraft garbage. With the new system there are two speakers up on stage pointing toward the audiance. The old system has the house speakers overhead all throughout the auditeria. The purpose is so that we can get different effect. Have a narrator or backgound music playing through the overheads, and have the actors or sound effects that would normally come form the stage as if (for example) a phone was really ringing.

 

[avkid]

it was a piece of Soundcraft garbage.

You have it backwards there buddy.
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Soundcraft is most certainly not garbage.
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Several of their desks were world standards and remain rider friendly.
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Not to mention their new digital desks, designed for all intensive purposes by Studer.
Studer being the world standard of high class broadcast consoles.
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I will not refuse a working Soundcraft that meets my rider specs for channel count, aux, eq, etc..
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If I walk in to find Mackie DFX or CFX I will walk out.

 

[avkid]

The purpose is so that we can get different effect. Have a narrator or backgound music playing through the overheads, and have the actors or sound effects that would normally come form the stage as if (for example) a phone was really ringing.

One word for that- NO.
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Point source for SFX is a good concept, but that is not the way to do it.
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Turn off the ceiling speakers.