Small Touring Sound Set-Up

However, it mutes when changing scenes.
Dealbreaker!

That Shouldn't be a problem for foldback, you just set and mix! If it was being used for FOH, then that would be a problem, but I don't see a reason for using scenes.

The other benefit is that if you need more ins/outs, you can link the consoles VIA Firewire. 48/20 desk with FULL EQ on ALL Ins/Outs for $16K!
 
I would be hesitant to recommend Audio Technica mics. I've never had a major problem, but I have found them hard to find replacements for in a pinch. I recently did a show where 4 of my wireless lav mics went bad dress rehearsal night and I couldn't find anyone that carried Audiotechnica. Everyone had Shure in stock. Also the sound quality between Audiotechnica and Shure are night and day. I would stick with Shure all the way.

Like I said, there's nothing terribly wrong with the audiotechnica, its just not a favorite of mine due to availability. Check your local stores before you order so you know if you have a dealer near by.

Our local retailer carries Shure wired and Audio Technica 2000 through 4000 in stock always. Had they normally stocked the Shure wireless, I'd definitely go for it. I'm in a really weird spot for sound. Everyone around here loves AT Wireless, Shure wired and QSC amps lol. Because of this, Crown amps and Shure wireless have to be special ordered. I have worked with both Shure and AT, and I agree that it is night and day.
 
That Shouldn't be a problem for foldback, you just set and mix! If it was being used for FOH, then that would be a problem, but I don't see a reason for using scenes.

The other benefit is that if you need more ins/outs, you can link the consoles VIA Firewire. 48/20 desk with FULL EQ on ALL Ins/Outs for $16K!

Scenes are the reason you go digital for monitors. Can't tell you how many times we have had to rent an M7 or PM5D for monitors just so someone can pop in a jump drive and jump through scenes all night. The nice thing when mixing monitors, especially ears, on a digital console is you can have preset for each song so the band gets exactly what they had during sound check.... as long as they did not change anything after sound check :rolleyes:.
 
Scenes are the reason you go digital for monitors. Can't tell you how many times we have had to rent an M7 or PM5D for monitors just so someone can pop in a jump drive and jump through scenes all night. The nice thing when mixing monitors, especially ears, on a digital console is you can have preset for each song so the band gets exactly what they had during sound check.... as long as they did not change anything after sound check :rolleyes:.
... In which case it is not relevent that it mutes. The reasons for suggesting this desk were the built in EQ, and expandability. As the 'Op origonally suggested a Mackie, this implies that he would be happy with analog, but Spectre7 can you please clarify on that.

(By the way, I agree that it is great to have scenes on a M7, they are hard things to busk on!)
 
gcpsoundlight said:
(By the way, I agree that it is great to have scenes on a M7, they are hard things to busk on!)

By "busk" I assume you mean "mix." I'm not sure what's so hard about mixing on an M7. It has pushy things and turny things just like every other console known to man.
 
Consoles
FOH - Mackie VLZ 24-4 Pro - Get a MixWiz or a GL2400 (or 2200).

Monitor - Mackie VLZ 24-4 Pro - Get a MixWiz Monitor or a GL as above.

(Or go digital.)



Microphones

Shure SM58 (6) - I much prefer the sound of the Sennheiser E835.

Sure BETA57a (4) - I'd go with the Audix D4 instead - much smaller and lighter.

Audio Technica Wireless Handhelds (4) - Which ones? Get something with the same capsule as your wired vocal mics. Be mindful of the new new FCC rules.



Processing, Effects, EQ (Not needed if you go with a digital console.)
RANE ME-60 EQ (2) - A good choice, as is the dbx 1231

dbx Advanced Feedback Suppressor - not needed.

dbx 1074 Compressor (2) - Never used one. I like the Rane G4

Alesis MidiVerb Multi Effects Processor - Which version? I hate the MV4. I like the Kurzweil Rumour, most TC, most Yamaha, and most Lexicon (some models won't go 100% wet - not good!).


Heads/Amplification
QSC RMX1450 (2)
QSC RMX2450 (2)

Good choices, but heavy and not as power efficient as the PLX.


Power Conditioning
ETA Not needed.
 
And what bearing does that have on the thread ? I believe, if you read the OP you would notice that he states it is for bands and audio productions < read that as DJ'ing > Since CB caters to every aspect of production and technical events I, for one, do not see how it effects anything.
I actually see several ways it may affect things on a more general basis involving experience with live sound involving performers and performances such as those envisioned. For example, I see separate FOH and monitor mixers, however I don't see any mic splits and the products and quantities listed seem more indicative of where you'd see one console used for both purposes rather than having separate FOH and monitor consoles. I'm not real sure what mixer is being referenced as the "VLZ 24-4 Pro" does not seem to be a valid model and the Mackie SR24.4-VLZ Pro has been discontinued, but I would say that a different console, perhaps a digital console with onboard effects and/or or larger input count console, may make more sense than having separate FOH and monitor consoles. I also see six Yamaha S115V mains, two Yamaha S12 monitors and two QSC K12 speakers, but no indication of why these quantities or how they plan to use them. For example, why six S115V mains and could the planned implementation require additional processing? And no subwoofers for a DJ service and events up to 800 people outdoors? Then there's the feedback suppressor but no apparent system processing. Or that the Multidirector is the generally wrong DI device for stage/touring type applications, you'll normally see multiple single channel boxes that can be used on stage. And what about racks, storage cases, etc.?

I don't know that actual basis for your list and whether it reflects what you have used in the past for such events or seen in use locally for similar performances or what potential clients have asked for. If there isn't some strong basis like that behind the list then I would suggest starting over. Look at things like what your competition has or uses, how much you can charge and what that justifies in terms of investment, what the bands may be looking for or accept (FWIW, the equipment listed seems to conflict with the claim on your web site that you use top-end equipment while others use cheap equipment) and so on. Think about how flexible the system needs to be in accommodating different venues and applications. Consider having spares of common items along with some common tools and how you are going to transport everything to and around gigs. Think about what you can do to make setup and break down easier and/or faster. Maybe even think about things like potential cross rental with other providers in the area.
 
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... this implies that he would be happy with analog, but Spectre7 can you please clarify on that.

To clarify, I am interested in an analog console. Most decent digital consoles are far more expensive (even when you factor that you don't need effects or processing equipment any longer) and I have never felt that purchasing one is feasible at this time. The only thing that I believe we have looked into was a Yamaha 01V96VCM.
 
If you are in a QSC area, why not use their speakers as well as their amps?
 
To clarify, I am interested in an analog console. Most decent digital consoles are far more expensive (even when you factor that you don't need effects or processing equipment any longer) and I have never felt that purchasing one is feasible at this time. The only thing that I believe we have looked into was a Yamaha 01V96VCM.
This may go back to the overall issue of what 'level' of gear and capabilities are you looking for. If you are at a level where any of the digital console options are too expensive then you're likely also at a point where separate FOH and monitor consoles would be unusual. There is not just the cost of the second console but also that a dedicated monitor mixer means having to somehow get the signals to both consoles and may also involve dedicated effects and signal processing as well as a dedicated operator. Then there's also the issue of having to transport and setup just two consoles, two effects racks and all the related interconnects. So if you look at what it might actually cost you to run a dedicated monitor mix and any added value in simplifying the setup, for the events you'll apparently be serving might it make seems to make more sense to instead invest that in a single console. That may allow for some digital console options.

In its price range the Yamaha S115V is a good general purpose speaker. However, for a live rock or DJ event for 500+ people outdoors, it's probably not enough unless the intent is more as background music. And using multiple of those boxes is probably not the best solution to addressing larger events. While how you plan to actually use the quantity and models of speakers listed in not exactly clear (such as why six S115V mains or what the K12s are for), you might want to think about either limiting what events you expect this system to support and renting for larger events or rethinking your speaker and amplifier choices. And there are probably few who would attempt the type of events you apparently are considering without subwoofers.

Also don't forget all the little items like adapters, speaker covers, road cases for the mixers, road racks for the amps and processors, a canopy for outdoor events and so forth. It's easy to say "yeah, we'll get that" but the reality is that all these ancillary parts and pieces can start to add up, especially if building from scratch.

You also probably want to look back at Derek's comment about a power distro. You probably won't be plugging everything into one 20A circuit, you'll need multiple circuits. And not all venues may provide you multiple single phase, 20A Edisons, you may get a 30A two phase connection on a twistlock or two or three phase on camlocks or whatever. So Getting those connections to what you need and where you need it is the role of a distro and the related feeder cable. Depending on what you need and how nice you want it, these can get expensive. If you have an idea of the venues where you might work then you might want to see what they will be able to provide to support your system and make sure that you have the power distribution necessary to make that work.
 
So the basic concept that I'm getting is that I should get a digital console... Maybe a LS9-16 with I/O expander or 01V96VCM with I/O expander, and use its capabilities to run monitors from there? Also then dump the efx, processors, and EQ since the board has it already. Maybe get a Yamaha SPX2000 with the extra money I'll save from not needing to but more racks and analog equipment?

Also, find better speakers?
 
If you can swing the LS9-16 that's really the way to go. If you only need 16 channels then you can double the inputs to the second layer and run monitors from there. That way all of your channel settings (minus the head amp) will be separated between monitors and FOH. A lot of people like the O1V for live sound but I'm not a big fan. Honestly, I'd rather have a MixWiz than have to navigate around on that clunky thing.

Sure, find better speakers, or lower your expectations. It's easy for us to suggest buying a VDosc rig, but you know your budget and what you are trying to accomplish. Sometimes those two things cannot go together and that's when you have to rethink things.
 
If you can swing the LS9-16 that's really the way to go. If you only need 16 channels then you can double the inputs to the second layer and run monitors from there. That way all of your channel settings (minus the head amp) will be separated between monitors and FOH. A lot of people like the O1V for live sound but I'm not a big fan. Honestly, I'd rather have a MixWiz than have to navigate around on that clunky thing.

Sure, find better speakers, or lower your expectations. It's easy for us to suggest buying a VDosc rig, but you know your budget and what you are trying to accomplish. Sometimes those two things cannot go together and that's when you have to rethink things.

What are your problems with the 01V? I'm just curious as it would be most cost effective for our purposes.
 
It can work and is decent for the price, but it's just too slow for live use. The LS9 is bordering for me, even after thousands of hours on it. You can download all of the Yamaha console offline editors from the web site. You install Studio Manager, then each OLE runs within it. I would suggest at least playing around with that before committing to a console, if you can't rent one or play with it in your local pro audio store.
 
Slow as in processing speed or just in the way its layered causing operation to be slow?
 
No, nothing to do with processing speed, just hard to navigate. I'm sure it's all a matter of getting used to, but I'll take real knobs on small consoles and go digital when the budget is there to support a "real" digital console.
 
Slow as in processing speed or just in the way its layered causing operation to be slow?
The latter, which is common for many consoles that were really designed for recording/studio use being used for live sound applications. They can work and some get very proficient at them, but that may take some work to get there. Which perhaps touches on another potential factor in any decision which is who may be using the console and their experience? Are you looking at scenarios where only you will ever be operating the system or may you encounter situations where others may be operating it, perhaps even without you having someone there all the time? If you may have instances where others operate the system then you likely want to consider that in both the console and effects used as well as in the system processing. You would usually want a mixing console that most of your intended users will be able to walk up and operate without much training. You probably also want a system that is as 'idiot proof' as possible, you may have in your Contract for the venue or whatever to pay for any damages to the system but while that is being resolved you could be without a system, so what is the value of some additional protection to help prevent that from happening?
 
The other benefit is that if you need more ins/outs, you can link the consoles VIA Firewire. 48/20 desk with FULL EQ on ALL Ins/Outs for $16K!
I would not call it a 48/20 console, rather a 48x4x3 with 10 auxes. Also, linking two StudioLive consoles does not double everything. It combines the input count, however aux sends are shared across both consoles, thus no expansion in aux sends. Effects sends and effect processors remain independent for each console. And Groups are either four shared Groups across the two consoles or four Groups per console. So still a lot of 'bang for the buck', but not as much expansion as some think when they are cascaded.

The scene recall of the StudioLive may or may not be an issue. Because it does not have motorized faders the process with a StudioLive is to select to recall a scene, at which point the faders are disabled and everything runs as it was set. Then you manually move the faders to the indicated positions and once that is done you push a button to make the faders active again. That and the muting may not be a problem between bands but between songs it could be, especially if you want to have some inputs stay live. And when you cascade consoles the scene recall is independent for each console, so the process has to be performed individually for both consoles.
 

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