Conventional Fixtures Something new with the Altman 6" fresnel?

[JohnD]

I hadn't seen this before, but was looking at the Altman 65Q and 165Q fresnels at PNTA today and noticed this:
Altman 6" Quartz Fresnel With CF & SC | Stage & Theatre Lighting Equipment & Supplies | PNTA
This fixture has always come with the medium pre focus socket, but it seems there are now other options.
The stock is still MPF medium pre-focus socket but now you can also specify:
MBP medium bi-post (Add $11.25)
G95 tp22 socket (Add $22.50)
HPL 120V socket (Add $22.50)
The 65Q has been around for a long time and is really a bargain as compared to the other options.
For the price on 1 Source 4 fresnel, you can almost buy 3 Altmans.
It would certainly help with control of replaement stock, fewer types of lamps to stock.
I do wonder if using a lamp designed for an axial ERS is really the best choice for a fresnel?

 

[Synchronize]

Interesting. They've been doing it for a while with the 1KAF. Probably wanting to make the (1)65Q easily integrate-able with existing ETC inventories and new Phoenix inventories. I would imagine using a GLD or GLE (versus a BTL or BTN) would reduce light output since the filament pukes light instead of directing it, though the loss may be nominal or even negative (a gain) with an HPL (of equal wattage). Would be interesting to put a few side by side and check it out.

 

[DELO72]

Interesting. They've been doing it for a while with the 1KAF. Probably wanting to make the (1)65Q easily integrate-able with existing ETC inventories and new Phoenix inventories. I would imagine using a GLD or GLE (versus a BTL or BTN) would reduce light output since the filament pukes light instead of directing it, though the loss may be nominal or even negative (a gain) with an HPL (of equal wattage). Would be interesting to put a few side by side and check it out.

You already get great output in the Altman 6" fresnel- You just need to use the BTH lamp (575W, 115V), which is based on the GLC capsule. Same high lumens (15,500), same high Color temp (3200K).

Although -- in a G9.5 base, the GLD & GLE would be even brighter as those are 750W, 115V-- (vs. the 120V coils in the BTL/BTR/BTN lamps)

 

[derekleffew]

... I do wonder if using a lamp designed for an axial ERS is really the best choice for a fresnel?

Tell that to ETC Products - Source Four Fresnel.

I've seen a years-old version of the 65Q with the TP22 socket, and a tiny reflector. Output and beam quality was sub-standard. (Also an R7s socket intended for double-ended, I believe 400 or 650W, lamp; that sucked too.) The long filament of the EHD/EHG doesn't work well when not axial to the spherical reflector. But the compact filament of the GLA or HPL families should work fine.

Also,

ARRI makes a Fresnel which uses the HPL under a license agreement from Entertec (D. Cunningham)-- HOWEVER, since the patent for the HPL expired in the USA on July 2nd of 2011, any OEM in the USA can use HPLs now in their fixtures. The reason (I am guessing) that ARRI took a license is that they a) could then start development early, and b) in Germany/Europe where ARRI is based, the HPL patent doesn't expire for another year. ...

With the patent expiring, I suspect we'll see the HPL go places it never has before. One lamp type for all a venue's fixtures? A purchasing agent's/inventory clerk's dream. If only!

 

[Synchronize]

You already get great output in the Altman 6" fresnel- You just need to use the BTH lamp (575W, 115V), which is based on the GLC capsule. Same high lumens (15,500), same high Color temp (3200K).

Although -- in a G9.5 base, the GLD & GLE would be even brighter as those are 750W, 115V-- (vs. the 120V coils in the BTL/BTR/BTN lamps)

You're right, I must have been a little bit out of it last night. I meant, GLA or GLC so same wattage same voltage. And for some reason I had it in my head that the GLA/GLC have CC-8 filaments. I was pondering whether a directional filament lamp vs a non-directional filament lamp (like an FLK) of equal wattage and voltage in a (1)65Q would have a difference in light output.

 

[gafftapegreenia]

Fascinating how just a few weeks ago in my 65Q MPF socket rant thread I was wondering if a TP22 socket in a 65Q was possible, and now, here it is!

I have never seen anything other than a MPF in a 65/65Q in the wild. I have seen linear double ended Halogen lamps in 75Q's, and yes, those sucked.

Recently I was working in a theatre that has a few 65Q's in their inventory. Interestingly, the Fresnel lenses in them were unstippled, and the risers of the lenses had black enamel, like the step lens Radials of old. As these had been at a rental house before coming to this theatre, it is possible that these were replacement lenses.

 

[zmb]

Those changes don't show up on the Altman website yet.
Are those changes also on the 75Q and other distributor websites besides PNTA?

 

[PNTA]

I am the Purchaser at PNTA. The addition of those options was finger-fumble on our website. Somehow the options for the 1KAF fixture got added to the 65Q and the 165Q. I apologize for the confusion. Thank you so much for bringing it to our attention. We are correcting it now. The basic Altman 65Q is a great fixture. If you are trying to come closer to matching your Source 4 fixtures, I would definitely recommend the BTH if you are looking to match color temperature and relative intensity of the other Source Four fixtures. I say relative because the reflector is not as efficient as the ones in the Source Four and it is not able to transmit the light in the same way.

All that being said, I want to apologize again for PNTAs error on the website. We strive to deliver accurate information and the best technical advice we are able. Don't hesitate to ask other questions as they arise.

 

[JohnD]

Well DANG, but that still makes the 6" Altman a bargain, especially with the availability of the BTH lamp. It's also great to see someone from PNTA on these forums.

 

[ship]

Saw the link but it wasn't from Altman - from someone but not Altman brand. Seems other sockets available in above the G-22, G-9.5, the as I call it G-9.5HS (heat sink) socket to simplify. Possible and given the HPL lamp pattent is about done with now, possible perhaps dependant on seat heights for bench focus of the LCL. I at times do this with Euro to US lamps in it can be done and is often done for bands that gotta have their lights that work in Euro, work now in the US, or the reverse by way of transformer or fixture re-figuring.

In other words, it's a Fresnel, as long as the filament is in-line with both reflector and lens, what ever lamp you want is mostly possible. Kliegl did Fresnels with RSC linear filament lamps, and yep they work.

Main question is if this is an Altman offer, or dealer offer I question? Void UL listing and warranty?

 

[techieman33]

Saw the link but it wasn't from Altman - from someone but not Altman brand. Seems other sockets available in above the G-22, G-9.5, the as I call it G-9.5HS (heat sink) socket to simplify. Possible and given the HPL lamp pattent is about done with now, possible perhaps dependant on seat heights for bench focus of the LCL. I at times do this with Euro to US lamps in it can be done and is often done for bands that gotta have their lights that work in Euro, work now in the US, or the reverse by way of transformer or fixture re-figuring.

In other words, it's a Fresnel, as long as the filament is in-line with both reflector and lens, what ever lamp you want is mostly possible. Kliegl did Fresnels with RSC linear filament lamps, and yep they work.

Main question is if this is an Altman offer, or dealer offer I question? Void UL listing and warranty?

The site that listed different lamp bases for the 65q was a mistake on the sites part as posted earlier in this thread. Altman does offer the different bases on the 1KAF though.

 

[ship]

gaftapegreeia - "Recently I was working in a theatre that has a few 65Q's in their inventory. Interestingly, the Fresnel lenses in them were unstippled, and the risers of the lenses had black enamel, like the step lens Radials of old. As these had been at a rental house before coming to this theatre, it is possible that these were replacement lenses."

Possible these were looking like the stock standard of an Altman 65 series Fresnel, but of another brand or len that in say older was still using that concept for blackening the edges of the lens less useful? Still work and doubtful a detected difference.

 

[ship]

I have a 1KALF, different animal. Sorry I missed the thread. Still this website is not of Altman nor I suspect any "upgrade" UL listed for any fixture from Altman.

 

[PNTA]

I just received work that Altman is officially offering the 65Q with an HPL option. I assume this would include the 165Q as well. After I carefully told everyone that it was not a real option, Altman went and made it and Option! You can also get the Pheonix, the Star Par, The 360Q, The 1KAF, and the 3.5 ellips with the HPL according to Altman. The pricing is the same as with the traditional fixtures. If you have questions, don't hesitate to call us at PNTA. I will do a bit of research to see if there is a retro-fit kit for older fixtures. Just wanted to give everyone and update!

 

[RickR]

I too checked with Altman. They've always been flexible but this is more than I expected, but it seems they've been doing it for a while.

 

[PNTA]

They have been doing it and advertising it for a while on several fixtures. The one that appears to be an addition is the 65Q and 165Q. I had called Altman regarding this a bit ago and it was not available. This will make matching colors and buying lamps much easier. I hope they have a conversion kit.

 

[ship]

Interesting in all the posts, thanks in my learning stuff also.

Now all of you that have been in touch with your sources etc. with Altman or still not sure of what PNTA is in my case, getting them to join the website. Just today about to add a 65Q to the museum in adding it to a parts PO so as to bulk it up. More concerned these days about how nobody makes a P-28s lamp socket these days that matches up with the old I think Bryant or GE standard for mounting holes. Had to warn a customer today for the same lamp sockets that the new hole pattern for all lamp sockets will require re-drilling of the mounting plate and other than re-surfacing your lamp sockets which is viable, the GE or Bryant at most popular is not the same anymoure. Even in setting up a PO for re-order for Altman, the part number is different. And If I remember correctly Osram don't even make the socket type in a viable vender on site in noting such a thing.

The replacement 360Q plate still has extra holes for mounting on a 360 series P-28s as far as I'm aware - on the PO for restock, but in general to be aware of all P-28s lamp sockets are changed these days in what anyone makes requiring re-drilling for center that isn't easy to do.

Anyway, something to be aware of in not tried HPL or other types of new lamps for a base Fresnel for the theater - different industry I work in and problematic enough I have in extracting S-4 reflectors from their brackets. Won last week in not only extracting one without a hammer or cracking it, but as a first shot, winning in getting it into a new frame on the first try. A win as big as getting baby to bed on first try if not larger.

 

[gafftapegreenia]

Hey PNTA, along with the Medium Pre Focus and TP22H socket options, are they also offering TP22 and G22 socket options for the 65Q?

If not, then I know what my new mission is.