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sound advice needed

Discussion in 'Sound, Music, and Intercom' started by tomwed, Jan 5, 2007.

  1. tomwed

    tomwed Member

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    We use a Yamaha EMX5014C Powered Mixer 500watts
    2 Nady 402 Group 4 VHF Lavalier Wireless Microphone Systems
    hs auditorium [60x90x14’ceiling height] [raked seating] [20x40 stage] [10ft wings] 12 ft stage ceiling
    painted cinderblock sidewalls,
    front and back walls decorative wood
    The pit is on floor level in front in between the stage and front row.
    Bose 802 speakers [20yrs old], 8 ft in from the corners of the stage, 10 feet off the floor, flanking the proscenium.

    I need more volume for the actors. The orchestra plays beautifully but loudly.
    Because of the type of ceiling we have, I cannot move the 802’s over the pit. I can center them over the proscenium.

    Where can I add extra speakers? I’m on a tight budget.

    [important fact I missed the stage is 30 inches above the auditorium floor]

    I have extra power amps and various shure hanging and floor mics.
     
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2007
  2. Eboy87

    Eboy87 Well-Known Member

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    Tell the orchestra to play quieter? Been there, done that, got more than 1 T-shirt. Are you powering the existing speakers adequitly (sp?)? What you can try to do is use the flown speakers to cover the rear of the house, then rent some speakers for the front of the house. I don't know what your stage looks like, but I've done shows where we had a JBL SRX738 over an SRX718s sub on each side. You could also use something like that for the house, while the Bose handles front-fill.

    I'd also check to make sure you're powering the speakers you have now with enough power (how's that for redundancy). Rule of thumb is twice the program rating (I think it's program. my speakers say RMS), i.e, speaker rated at 500 watts gets a 1000 watt amp (but I'm sure you know that).
     
  3. tomwed

    tomwed Member

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    Tell the orchestra to play quieter? Been there, done that, got more than 1 T-shirt.

    Are you powering the existing speakers adequitly (sp?)?

    Can I increase the power of this amp by simply adding another one to it. How is that done?

    What you can try to do is use the flown speakers to cover the rear of the house, then rent some speakers for the front of the house.

    my speakers are on each side of the stage. should i move the bose to the center over the procenium? I have a couple of kustom column speakers that i could also put in front of the apron.


    I don't know what your stage looks like, but I've done shows where we had a JBL SRX738 over an SRX718s sub on each side. You could also use something like that for the house, while the Bose handles front-fill.

    I'd also check to make sure you're powering the speakers you have now with enough power (how's that for redundancy). Rule of thumb is twice the program rating (I think it's program. my speakers say RMS), i.e, speaker rated at 500 watts gets a 1000 watt amp (but I'm sure you know that).
    [i didn't know that. i would rather sound dumb and learn something then the other way around.]
     
  4. SHARYNF

    SHARYNF Well-Known Member

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    The main problem is the 802 bose are NEVER going to do it, these are dj speakers, and they simply have no ability to project the sound out to the house.
    The Jbl sr system mentioned above is light years above the level of the bose speakers. (pro's will joke that Bose, stands for bring other sound equipment)

    Simply adding speakers around the house is not going to work unless you have a time delay system to allow you to time align the various speakers, if you don't you are going to wind up with a real sonic mess.

    This is why orchestra pits are used where the orchestra is down below and partially covered? I am guessing that the orchestra is simply sitting on the floor at the same level as the audience?

    Better speakers amp setup would help. Telling the orchestra to play quieter is not likely to work at all. Putting an absorbing drape overhead of the orchestra would be a possiblity but I am sure that the seating is too high for this to work, so I would have to say rent a better sound system with speakers that are designed for projecting out into the audience, typically you will have a combo of horns and mids, and sub s.

    Sharyn
     
  5. soundlight

    soundlight Well-Known Member

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    "No highs, No lows, Must be Bose."

    That's the one that I've heard. And yeah, the Bose 802's are not really all that loud, they're not going to cut it for a center cluster.
     
  6. tomwed

    tomwed Member

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    I'll contact some local rental agencies for the spring musical.

    I'd also like to make a proposal to the administration to purchase new equipment. There is a slight chance that we may pass a referendum for a major purchase. It's like "waiting for godot".

    Can I add another amp to my existing amp, or it doesn't work quite that way?

    I appreciate your time and advice.
     
  7. kovacika

    kovacika Active Member

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    You cant add two amps together just by wiring them in paralell. You can bridge them and run one amp per side/speaker.
     
  8. soundlight

    soundlight Well-Known Member

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    In other words, there should be a setting on your amp to make the two amplifiers circuits in your stereo amplifier (with two speakers connected to the two ouputs) act as one amplifier, and power one speaker, with close to twice as much power. This is called "bridged mono mode." You may already have some amps set to this, but this'd work. But remember to check the power rating on your Bose 802's.

    If you're going for a major purchase, I'd personally go for a center cluster of 2 Mackie S408's to replace your 802's, and two 600 watt stereo bridged amps for those (unless you already have 2 600W stereo amps that can be bridged).
     
  9. jkowtko

    jkowtko Active Member

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    Or you can buy some self-powered Mackie SRM450s and eliminate the hassle of wiring amps. I have four of them hanging in my theater (two center cluster plus two wings) plus two SRM350s in the rear for fill-in, and the system sounds really good and can outbelt any orchestra.
    Plus they're very portable so you can take them down and use for other purposes -- all you have to do is plug in a mic.
    Unfortunately they're not cheap (no good speaker option is), but you get what you pay for. If you really don't want to spend money and just want to get better sound for what you have, about the only thing I can think of is to put your speakers as close to the audience as possible, and in between the audience and the orchestra.
     
  10. soundlight

    soundlight Well-Known Member

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    The reason that I recommended the S408 was the extremely nice coverage pattern for a space with a low ceiling. The S408 has a better dispersion pattern than the SRM 450, if I read their site right.
     
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2007
  11. avkid

    avkid Not a New User Fight Leukemia

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    B uy
    O ther
    S ound
    E quipment
     
  12. SHARYNF

    SHARYNF Well-Known Member

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    While the 408 do seem to look better on paper, there is not a lot of experience with them. Mackie SRM450 are pretty common, they do have a potential problem in that they have a 90 degree horn so if you mount them next to one another unless you splay them quite a bit and wind up with 180 degree coverage, you are likely to get comb filtering. This is why most horns that need to be placed next to one another, use the 60 degree version (Jbl 2385's vs Jbl 2380's for instance)

    There is an interesting way to get around this problem, in that most installs that want to add more speakers are really looking for more PUSH than actually wider disperson, SO if you place one srm450 on top of the other with the horns together it works quite well, (Getting the rigging to work can be a bit of an issue)

    In addition in support for the SRM450's is that if you grow the system they make good self powered monitors.

    Sharyn
     

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