# Source 4 Jr

#### stantonsound

##### Active Member
Ok. I am a little busy these days. I have been trying to put aside some time for a while now to do a full comparison of the Source Four standard fixture to the Source Four Jr.

Output, temperature, lumes at distance, etc...

Has anyone done this and have some good info? I am looking to pick up a bunch of the S4 Jr. Zooms (I bought one to test it, but just haven't gotten to it yet).

#### jmabray

##### Active Member
Take a look at the cut sheets from ETC. They are pretty informative and can answer most of your questions.

#### SteveB

##### Well-Known Member
We use 60 or so Jr. zooms in our black box, with another 48 reg. S4 zooms and 24 19&26 degree fixed lense fixtures in our road house.

The obvious difference is the wattage and intensity of the bigger models being much punchier at 750 watts. The Jr.'s are limited to the 575w lamp. The other major difference is the Jr's. don't allow rotation of the shutter and gobo slot.

These differences are yours to determine if it's important or not.

SB

#### michaelburgoyne

##### Member
The Jr fixtures have a smaller gate, so the shutters and gobos are all physically smaller. If you have an inventory of "A" or "B" size gobos for your Source 4 or Altman ellipsoidals, having to buy the "M" size used by the Jr may be frustrating. Many lighting dealers don't stock the "M" gobos or have a limited quantity, so you may not be able to pick up a specific pattern on the day that you need it. Finally, the Jr lens assembly is contained within a bracket that slides inside the fixture body, there isn't a complete sliding barrel like the full-size Source 4. This makes getting a sharp edge slightly more difficult, you can't hold the lens assembly with one hand while you tighten the thumb screw with the other. Ultimately the Jr is a nice fixture for the price, but you sacrifice some features and quality.

#### icewolf08

##### CBMod
CB Mods
I think that the choice between the Source Four and the S4 Jr. is really up to the application. If you know that you will want modularity you should be looking at the real S4. With the Jr. you don't have options like the accessory slot, interchangeable lenses, more lamp options and higher light output.

the Jr. is great if you need to save space, but in terms of useful functionality the standard S4 is better. I suppose if you have space and weight limitations, like if you were touring the rig around.

The template situation that michaelburgoyne mentioned is actually a good concern. You get much better image projection from the standard S4, and if use A size templates, which have a larger image area, you get much more light output. You also have the option to upgrade to the EDLT lenses if you need nice pattern projection. ON the topic of lenses, if you buy S4 Jr.'s you have to buy an entire new fixture if you need different field angles as opposed to an $88 lens. Also, the new, 14˚, 70˚, and 90˚ lenses have the EDLT glass standard. I think unless you really need to save the money you are better off with the standard S4. #### DarSax ##### Active Member Well if you think about it, wouldn't the Source 4 Jr.'s main competitor be something like the 360Q, being that as people have said it's pretty much a lower-cost less-functional S4? (Which is the market that the 360Q seems to take) #### soundlight ##### Well-Known Member On some websites, the S4 junior is actually listed as being cheaper than an Altman 3.5Q (Premier Lighting for one). The S4 junior seems like a very workable option for lower-budget folks, it's more compact than a 360Q and uses an HPL, and also is available cheaper in many cases. It may take M size gobos, but with enough warning, you can get any standard steel gobo in M size from Rosco, Gam, or Apollo. #### Lightingguy32 ##### Active Member Ok. I am a little busy these days. I have been trying to put aside some time for a while now to do a full comparison of the Source Four standard fixture to the Source Four Jr. Output, temperature, lumes at distance, etc... Has anyone done this and have some good info? I am looking to pick up a bunch of the S4 Jr. Zooms (I bought one to test it, but just haven't gotten to it yet). My advice is as follows, if your school has the money, buy the source four Zoom full size fixture. The jr. Zoom is great for shorter throws (about 40 feet max) but if your school is tight with money and you have a short to medium throw need, the Jr. will satisfy that need, how ever, if the throw is any longer (by at least 5 feet) go with the full size zoom fixture. For one thing the full size zoom is much more user friendly and also has better optics. #### stantonsound ##### Active Member Well, I am not a school. I have a few jr. zooms, but really hadn't had the opportunity to compare them unit to unit against the other fixtures. I finally did an equal comparison between the Jr. Zooms and the full size standard fixture this week. The Jr.s zooms are very cheap to buy, and are very flexible. I like their size and weight, as well. I will have to say that the throw distance is much less than it's bigger brother. From the far catwalks, they just don't have the punch to really cut through. I even had the Jr. and the full sized both lamped with identical 575 watt lamps. Benefits: Cost (only about$217 each!)
Flexibility, range from 25 to 50 degrees
Size and Weight

Negatives:
Can't lamp with a 750 watt
Can't use standard A or B gobos, pattern holders, iris, etc..
Less throw distance
Can't have the 5, 10, 19 degree lens tubes

I wouldn't mind having a dozen or so of these. They are PERFECT for side lighting, mounting on boom arms, etc... They are lighter and the throw distance is just right for these. I would really not want a house with nothing but Jr's. I think it is just like everything else, it has it's use, but is not the best thing since sliced bread.

#### Kelite

##### Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Tom, you are very correct on your summary of the fixtures. Knowing how the ETC Source Four has changed the standard by which other static ellipsoidals are judged, the Source Four Jr. has filled a niche for shorter throw fixtures. And yes, the Jr. needs 'M' sized gobo and smaller accessories- but that's why Apollo makes so many 'M' sized standard and custom patterns, not to mention gobo rotators for the Jr.
No offense meant toward the ETC Revolution, but the Source Four Jr. has really solidified the 'M' sized steel pattern as a popular gobo size.

(There are thousands upon thousands of Source Four Jrs. used in short throw theaters and for corporate/retail installations. Great fixture for the money, when not expecting full size Source Four performance.)

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#### Darkspots

##### Member
The sidelight position is not a bad one for the Junior, but if your theater has outside groups and designers come through, they may not thank you for making that choice--if they brought gobos to use in their mids, for example. At least you're not likely to want to rotate the barrel to make a difficult shutter cut from that position.

#### stantonsound

##### Active Member
Tom, you are very correct on your summary of the fixtures. Knowing how the ETC Source Four has changed the standard by which other static ellipsoidals are judged, the Source Four Jr. has filled a niche for shorter throw fixtures. And yes, the Jr. needs 'M' sized gobo and smaller accessories- but that's why Apollo makes so many 'M' sized standard and custom patterns, not to mention gobo rotators for the Jr.
No offense meant toward the ETC Revolution, but the Source Four Jr. has really solidified the 'M' sized steel pattern as a popular gobo size.
(There are thousands upon thousands of Source Four Jrs. used in short throw theaters and for corporate/retail installations. Great fixture for the money, when not expecting full size Source Four performance.)

Time for a little advertising (or butt kissing, take your pick)..... I just wanted to tell you, Kelite, how much I love my new "Smart Move" rotators and the fact that the gel sheets that I get from you guys are perfed. The extra programs/sequences built into the rotator are great and the effects truly have taken a lighting special effect that was good and made it great.

I relocated my business about a year ago and switched to a new local supplier for most of my gear. They use Apollo and suggested that I switch to it as well. All of the products get to me faster than anyone else that I have used (for special orders) and the service is great. I am trying to build a few right arms into the budget for an upcoming show, and would love to add them to my inventory.

If anyone doesn't know, they will perforate your gel sheets so when you get them, all you have to do is tear and you can start dropping color. Perforated gels are the greatest thing since sliced bread.

#### Kelite

##### Well-Known Member
Premium Member
<If anyone doesn't know, they will perforate your gel sheets so when you get them, all you have to do is tear and you can start dropping color. Perforated gels are the greatest thing since sliced bread.>

The Apollo perfed gel has been very popular with technicians who have been burdened with more tasks than time will allow. The Apollo gel is simply folded on the perf, torn to size, and installed. Touring acts and corporate one-off's have used this service to free up some valuable time during load in.

Thank you for your kind words Tom. I'm encouraged we have taken away some of the hassle from your daily responsibilities. Demos of the Right Arm are shipping next week. Let me know where/when a demo would work best for you and I'll get the ball rolling.

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#### Lightingguy32

##### Active Member
Source Four Jrs. are nice compact fixtures for tight spaces and are also fixtures on a budget. They lack a rotating lenstube/gate assembly and also need an M-sized gobo. Also the lenstubes are not readily swappable.

The output from a Jr. is about as good as a 360Q running on an EHG but the color temperature is about matched with the source four full size fixture. How ever, try not to blend the two different sized source four fixtures with each other for lighting zones becuase there is a noticeable intensity difference in between the two types of fixtures due to the fact that the Jr. uses a slightly less efficient reflector.