Source 4 LEDS, Ion and on the fly color mixing.

qdigger

Member
Joined
Jul 28, 2009
We have a dance show coming up with no tech time so we can't write cues. We are trying to figure out the best way to do on the fly color mixing that could still happen at slow or fast times. Our less expensive LED pars, we were able to set up the color mixing on the board very easily: with red blue green and worked right way.

But the S4 led are not working in the same way. We tried recording submasters different colors of the S4 leds which we could then busk into different colors. We have the intensity in one fader and the saturation in another fader. When we we try to add the hue into another for red, blue and green it will just switch to the other without fading. Are color palettes the best way to go? Or is there a better way to do?

Thanks so much,

Kathe
 

Amiers

Renting to Corporate One Fixture at a Time.
Joined
May 28, 2009
Location
Phoenix, Az
Just grab your S4 run the color to whatever color and record sub # , rinse repeat for other colors. Don’t mess with hue and saturation.
 

qdigger

Member
Joined
Jul 28, 2009
We could not make it color mix the two faders together it would just go to other color unless we where doing it wrong.
 

sk8rsdad

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Premium Member
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Presumably you are asking about RGB mixing on subs? record each color parameter to a sub separately. It is a pretty old school way to handle color these days though.

selection Red Record Sub x
selection Green Record Sub y
....
 

Amiers

Renting to Corporate One Fixture at a Time.
Joined
May 28, 2009
Location
Phoenix, Az
It sounds like your trying to record from a hue and saturation not the specific colors themselves. Alternatively you can just create a few generic color scenes record them to a sub. Then durning your short tech decide what you like record to a cue and just play the goto cue game or slap the playback each transition.

If you have time to make some subs surely you can record cues on the fly too.
 

qdigger

Member
Joined
Jul 28, 2009
We are recording the subs while the lights are set up with no dancers, trying to give us flexibility when see dancers in space. We have seen rehearsals but no one has danced in the space yet. It is going to be interesting. I also have a student designer who has some ideas but not sure exactly what he wants to do hence the color mixing.

I think we might be running the S4 LEDs in the wrong mode to be able to control each color led separately. Like I said the cheap pars worked fine, set up no problems but the S4 LED's have more perimeters and have the self calibration so basically they don't want to act dumb. I honestly thought this would be really easy as well and can't believe it is turning into such an ordeal.
 

Lextech

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Dec 2, 2013
Location
Virginia
You could simply set up a tab on a split screen with the color picker and turn them loose. The other half could be a magic sheet with groups and colors they know they will use. Since magic sheets were released, I haven’t really used a fader except for house and work lights. Another way, if they know gel color is “channel@#/###” where the # before the slash is 3 for Lee and 5 for Rosco and the second # is their gel number. So 3/162 is bastard amber and 5/80 is primary blue.
 

geoffrey hugh

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Joined
Oct 4, 2016
Location
new york city
We have a dance show coming up with no tech time so we can't write cues. We are trying to figure out the best way to do on the fly color mixing that could still happen at slow or fast times. Our less expensive LED pars, we were able to set up the color mixing on the board very easily: with red blue green and worked right way.

But the S4 led are not working in the same way. We tried recording submasters different colors of the S4 leds which we could then busk into different colors. We have the intensity in one fader and the saturation in another fader. When we we try to add the hue into another for red, blue and green it will just switch to the other without fading. Are color palettes the best way to go? Or is there a better way to do?

Thanks so much,

Kathe
what you propose is a bit absurd, in the world of design., for it is not design at all. why not do something you CAN control, like maybe no colour at all, some basic washes, a few specials, and try to wing that? simpler is always better, and i've learned that after earning my NYU MFA in design, and almost fifty years as a theatre worker.
 

blueeyesdesigns

Active Member
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Aug 4, 2010
Location
North/West Chicago Area
what you propose is a bit absurd, in the world of design., for it is not design at all. why not do something you CAN control, like maybe no colour at all, some basic washes, a few specials, and try to wing that? simpler is always better, and i've learned that after earning my NYU MFA in design, and almost fifty years as a theatre worker.
You're speaking from your experience, which while not invalid, is not universal. I work in a road/rental house and an academic environment where time is often a very limited commodity and I'm lucky if I get to see one run through before we have an audience. Did we get a tech week to sit down and finesse each look? No. Would I still consider what I'm doing design? Absolutely. Is what OP trying to accomplish a form of design? Absolutely.

I will often map color parameters on subs and mix colors on the fly. It gives me a lot of flexibility in how colors change from one to the next in a live event and quick access without a lot of clicking around in run-and-gun rehearsal setting. It's very do-able on an EOS/Ion and with a little practice can look very polished and professional.

OP - Which ETC LED fixtures do you have? When you look at the expanded view of the fixture on the screen, does it have RBG parameters? If not, then you might need to change the profile; I don't think the console will create virtual RBG parameters. (If someone wants to correct me on this, please do. I know it will create virtual HSI, but I'm not sure if it goes the other way.) If so, you can absolutely control the colors separately*. The default "home" of all the color parameters in the Source4 fixture profiles (last I looked, anyway) is 100%, so if you give them no other info and run up the intensity, they'll come on in full white. Same with H/S. That could be what's messing with your subs. There are a couple of different ways to over-ride that, and I'd be happy to help in more detail if you need it.

*some of the ETC fixtures that have more than RGB colors have modes that will blend in the others based on what it thinks you're trying to do (send it Red and Green, it might add some amber, etc) so you could get more than you literally asked for in that scenario.

You also need to make sure that your subs have information for the parameter you want to control and ONLY the parameter you want to control. To do this, you'll need to go into the sub and [@][Enter] any parameters that aren't the color for that sub.

Use Hue/Sat or RGB but NOT BOTH. So if you have subs for hue/sat, don't mess with RBG, if you have subs for RBG, don't mess with hue/sat. Personally, I would work in RGB, but my brain grooves like that way of thinking.
 
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almorton

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Dec 17, 2014
Location
Caterham, Surrey, UK
You also need to make sure that your subs have information for the parameter you want to control and ONLY the parameter you want to control. To do this, you'll need to go into the sub and [@][Enter] any parameters that aren't the color for that sub.
This. ^^^ So much this.

So many queries on forums about why controlling colour fixtures via subs isn't working as expected comes down, in the end, to having more information recorded into the sub than is required. Always, always do selective recording so you are only altering the parameter you want. In the old days where only intensity was controlled, it really didn't matter, because everything was HTP and anything recorded at 0 for example had no effect. But colour parameters are LTP, and anything recorded will immediately take over when the sub is moved, so you must be sure you only have the parameters you want to affect recorded. A parameter recorded at 0 is not the same as a parameter which is absent ([@][Enter] to remove unwanted parameters, as stated above).
 
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