Source Four lamp burner failure

[Bryce_Jonke]

I recently started as a ATD at a high school and have come across an issue that I find troubling. When coming into the space many of the Source four ellipsoids in the space where dead and I figured they just were not very good at keeping up with lamp replacement (which they were not). Though upon further investigation a large amount of them had the burners charred on one of the contact points to the point where they would no longer work. So far I have found 8 or 9 Burners with this issue. The dimmer systems in the building were retrofit I belive 10-15 years ago but a mix of a few different types of systems. Im concerned that it could be caused by an electrical issue though Im not sure. If anyone has had a similar issue before I would love some thoughts and input.

 

[RonHebbard]

I recently started as an ATD at a high school and have come across an issue that I find troubling. When coming into the space many of the Source four ellipsoids in the space where dead and I figured they were just not very good at keeping up with lamp replacement (which they were not). Though upon further investigation a large amount of them had the burners charred on one of the contact points to the point where they would no longer work. So far I have found 8 or 9 Burners with this issue. The dimmer systems in the building were retrofit I belive 10-15 years ago but a mix of a few different types of systems. I'm concerned that it could be caused by an electrical issue though I'm not sure. If anyone has had a similar issue before I would love some thoughts and input.

@Bryce_Jonke I VERY strongly doubt your burnt socket contacts are the result of any manner of dimmer or wiring problem. I believe the most common cause of this is users not fully inserting lamps into sockets resulting in less than perfect electrical contact and then it's only a question of time until you replace the damaged socket with a new socket and learn not to repeat the same mistake. Putting new lamps in burnt sockets is NOT a cure as the contacts will continue to arc and burn. Cleaning may help if the damage to the socket contact is minimal but, again, you're wasting your time, money and replacement lamps. It's one of those cases where you need to begin with good habits and reap the rewards, otherwise I believe one of the commoner expressions is: "You're pissing in the wind" once the damage is done. Using the Control Booth search function in the upper right corner of your screen should reveal a number of posts. This is / was a VERY common problem with FEL's in Altman 360Q's, Strand 2200 series, Colortran's and many others. With Source Fours, similar problems: Different sockets and different lamps but same user-based / "pilot error" problem. I suspect others will be along shortly and most with similar thoughts for you.
Sorry @Bryce_Jonke I wish I had better info' to offer but it's one of those hard lessons to learn. You can go the route of burnishing damaged lamps and damaged sockets with a variety of Dremel bits and applying fancy chemicals in cans or expensive little bottles but you're wasting your money on Cramolin et al once the cycle has begun its downward death spiral.
I'll put out the Control Booth 'Bat Call' to summon a few other posters for you. @derekleffew @ship @DELO72 @STEVETERRY @sk8rsdad @FMEng @Footer Can any of you offer more useful info' for poster @Bryce_Jonke ??
EDITED: To correct the spelling of "Dremel".
Toodleoo!
Ron Hebbard

 

[TimMc]

Listen to Ron. Once the base socket has become carbonized, pitted or otherwise compromised your only *real* fix is replacing the base. Not terribly expensive but not replacing them is more expensive as you'll be re-lamping more often until you fix them.

 

[microstar]

Hopefully the HPL socket is not pop-riveted in place like in the Altman Phoenix ellipsoidal. Finally learned to use machine screws to put them back together for ease of replacement next time. You can just buy the actual ceramic socket insert with whip leads attached from most of the lamp suppliers pretty inexpensively.

 

[Les]

It does happen. Most lamp sockets could be considered a wear-item, albeit with a long life (which can be shortened by mishandling).

What people do to spread this disease is they take the lamp out of an intermittent fixture and say "Aw, well the lamp isn't even burned out" and they put it aside. Someone else, or maybe the same person, comes along and puts that lamp in to a different fixture. But the damaged pins have a higher resistance and poor connection and causes arcing in the previously good fixture. And so it propagates.

Best thing to do (after a quick re-training session) is to pull all suspect fixtures out of stock, buy replacement sockets, and replace them as you can. Eradicate any old lamps you see lying around - especially those where the filaments still look good but their pins show evidence of pitting and arcing.

I don't believe the sockets are riveted in place; thank goodness for that.

 

[SteveB]

Changing the sockets is painless, the ETC assembly guide is here:

http://www.etcconnect.com/WorkArea/DownloadAsset.aspx?id=10737477297

 

[Bryce_Jonke]

@Bryce_Jonke I VERY strongly doubt your burnt socket contacts are the result of any manner of dimmer or wiring problem. I believe the most common cause of this is users not fully inserting lamps into sockets resulting in less than perfect electrical contact and then it's only a question of time until you replace the damaged socket with a new socket and learn not to repeat the same mistake. Putting new lamps in burnt sockets is NOT a cure as the contacts will continue to arc and burn. Cleaning may help if the damage to the socket contact is minimal but, again, you're wasting your time, money and replacement lamps. It's one of those cases where you need to begin with good habits and reap the rewards, otherwise I believe one of the commoner expressions is: "You're pissing in the wind" once the damage is done. Using the Control Booth search function in the upper right corner of your screen should reveal a number of posts. This is / was a VERY common problem with FEL's in Altman 360Q's, Strand 2200 series, Colortran's and many others. With Source Fours, similar problems: Different sockets and different lamps but same user-based / "pilot error" problem. I suspect others will be along shortly and most with similar thoughts for you.
Sorry @Bryce_Jonke I wish I had better info' to offer but it's one of those hard lessons to learn. You can go the route of burnishing damaged lamps and damaged sockets with a variety of Dremel bits and applying fancy chemicals in cans or expensive little bottles but you're wasting your money on Cramolin et al once the cycle has begun its downward death spiral.
I'll put out the Control Booth 'Bat Call' to summon a few other posters for you. @derekleffew @ship @DELO72 @STEVETERRY @sk8rsdad @FMEng @Footer Can any of you offer more useful info' for poster @Bryce_Jonke ??
EDITED: To correct the spelling of "Dremel".
Toodleoo!
Ron Hebbard

That was my other thoughts on it and I have already started replacing the sockets in the fixtures as well as checking the lamps I haven't replaced yet to make sure they were inserted completely. I just wanted to make sure I was not overlooking a more serious issue. Thank you for the reply and advice.

 

[JD]

What Les said above says it best. It is like a disease in that a lamp put in a bad socket now has bad contacts and if put in another good fixture it will damage that base as well. In short order you can end up with a significant part of your inventory having bad sockets, and you are left scratching your head as to why.
Threat it like the disease it is and quarantine any and all bad sockets and lamps.

 

[ship]

Very glad the disease concept has caught on as with replaceable parts - lamp socket for this type. Shows CB has had an impact on the industry.

 

[gafftapegreenia]

One gadget i bought and hardly used is the Best Seat Lamp Insertion Tool. It does work I just always forgot I had it.
http://www.productionadvantageonline.com/Products/BEST SEAT.aspx

 

[JD]

One gadget i bought and hardly used is the Best Seat Lamp Insertion Tool. It does work I just always forgot I had it.
http://www.productionadvantageonline.com/Products/BEST SEAT.aspx

Which brings us to the "Chicken vs The Egg" part of the story about this disease. Does it start with the lamp or the socket? Sure bases and sockets do go bad on their own, but I suspect the answer is often "neither."
I believe that often this starts from the fear of lamps! Specifically, people who have been taught "Thou Shalt Not Touch The Lamp", or have had one break while trying to seat it. The result is that the lamp may be pushed in with not enough force to properly seat it and this starts the contact burn (as well as an unexpected bench focus problem.) The above tool, kept properly cleaned, solves the issue. I don't have one, but use two tongue depressor sticks to apply pressure to the base to seat the lamp. The tool would be a lot easier, but I'm retired from lighting, so I only end up changing one a year on average. For those who are changing lamps often, get the tool or develop a technique that firmly seats the lamp without breaking the lamp or the above commandment.

 

[cbrandt]

We change at least 1000 hpl lamps a year rotating wattages in our rental inventory. It really comes down to being careful about seating them fully. My fixtures don't run 40 hours a week, but we replace more customer ceramics than we do on our internal inventory. I think the fact that ours regularly get changed around keep them from becoming loose in a socket.

I like that tool though. I hadn't run across it before. I might pick up a few to speed up those days when we're changing 200 fixtures from 750 to 575.

 

[sk8rsdad]

A cheap alternative to the Best Seat tool is a piece of pvc pipe or conduit of an appropriate diameter that is a little longer than the bulb. Add an end cap if you like but it's not necessary.

 

[RonHebbard]

A cheap alternative to the Best Seat tool is a piece of pvc pipe or conduit of an appropriate diameter that is a little longer than the bulb. Add an end cap if you like but it's not necessary.

@Bryce_Jonke @JohnD @cbrandt @sk8rsdad When we opened Hamilton's Theatre Aquarius in 1991. there were 242 Century Strand 2200 series ellipsoidals in the brand new inventory (Unfortunately Source Fours had not quite hit the market when Aquarius was being tendered) and we purchased 300 General Electric FEL's to lamp our inventory and provide a decent initial stock of spares. Realizing correct seating of the lamps was essential, along with not contaminating the lamps with perspiration, we manufactured a pair of custom insertion tools from construction debris by cutting, reaming and scrupulously cleaning several lengths of 3/4" ID EMT and inserting them into holes bored half way into palm-sized scraps of sanded 2 x 2 cedar. This made quick work of fully inserting FEL's into all the ellipsoidals. We opened the newly constructed venue and I haunted the place for a couple of seasons during which time Strand replaced many cracked lenses under warranty but we NEVER had a single instance of lamp base or socket contact arcing or burning; not one. When I departed, the senior IA brother who replaced me apparently didn't appreciate the value of the convenient little lamp insertion tools and out of service lamp caps began to accumulate at an alarming rate. Perhaps this was his goal all along as I gather all of the Century Strands were replaced by Source Fours prior to being sold for essentially pennies per pound. Life marches on. The last I saw a few of the Century Strands they'd migrated to several of the area's amateur groups where the majority of them were continuing to decline. Many groups appear to consider maintenance a dirty word.
Old and embittered? Who?? Me??? (I suppose I secretly still morn the demise of wicks and whale oil.) [Although I've gotten over lime-light, gas and brine dimmers]
Toodleoo!
Ron Hebbard

 

[TimMc]

Yeah, sure thing, Ron! We know you keep a carbide lamp on your night stand.

 

[RonHebbard]

Yeah, sure thing, Ron! We know you keep a carbide lamp on your night stand.

"Tequila mockingbird cocktails with a twist of wry" you say @TimMc ? My sides still ache.
Toodleoo!
Ron Hebbard

 

[ship]

Shortly after we sold off most all PAR 64 Cans and got in the PAR 64 S-4 to replace them all... (than quickily had to buy hundreds more PAR 64), we were that work weekend having to seat PAR64 S-4 lamps into sockets that just did not want to accept a lamp. CB in research could probably come up with some history. In my case, it took like a 1" sch. 40 pipe and a mallet to set the lamps on the new initial S-4 par by way of a few hundred to be done that weekend.

Personally, I just don't accept the exceuse of not fully seated lamps. I would more dirty finger fu/// lamps in seating them than not seated lamps. This especially given such lamps won't bench focus properly. This would mean two failures in a training system - failure to seat the lamp, second that the lamp won't focus correctly. Perhaps I don't get this, but a non-seated lamp won't focus properly especially on a S-4. At what point did not someone note this in more to tell?

 

[James Suit]

As a former Light Bulb Salesman, your issues is entirely due to age and use as @RonHebbard and @Les mentioned above. Replace the sockets - they're pretty easy to find from BT, Production Advantage, BMI, et al... And make sure your pins are seated properly. The BestSeat is a great tool to keep on your electrics belt - I have a couple on my desk and I don't even freelance anymore.

James Suit
Former Light Bulb Salesman, Current Wiggle Light Salesman
[email protected]

 

[jonnymo]

I recently started as a ATD at a high school and have come across an issue that I find troubling. When coming into the space many of the Source four ellipsoids in the space where dead and I figured they just were not very good at keeping up with lamp replacement (which they were not). Though upon further investigation a large amount of them had the burners charred on one of the contact points to the point where they would no longer work. So far I have found 8 or 9 Burners with this issue. The dimmer systems in the building were retrofit I belive 10-15 years ago but a mix of a few different types of systems. Im concerned that it could be caused by an electrical issue though Im not sure. If anyone has had a similar issue before I would love some thoughts and input.

Make sure you are using HPL lamps and not an FEL or mini bi pin lamp. Other lamps do fit in a S-4 but they will work poorly and hurt the fixture.

 

[JChenault]

To the OP. Most S4 have a spring clip that is designed to firmly hold the lamp in the socket. Very old models do not. If your burner has a spring clip that has failed. Get the parts and repair it at the same time you are replacing the socket.

If your fixtures are really old, you might consider a new burner with the spring clips.