Source Four Revolution

icewolf08

CBMod
CB Mods
My understanding was that the gobo in the Vari Light is glass, and therefore more expensive than a cheapo metal M size template. Are you saying that the Vari Lite fixture can use metal M gobos as well?

It isn't M size, but yes, it is my understanding that you don't have to use VL's proprietary glass gobos. You just need to ask your dealer for templates in the correct size.
 

TimMiller

Well-Known Member
you can call any gobo manufacturer and ask for whatever gobo for a VL1000. I have used revolutions several times and i hate them. They are the most sorry excuse for a moving light ever invented. Color scrollers were fine in the early 90's but why buy a "new light" with old technology. Color scrollers are always prone to fail. They rely on a motor to keep the gel string in position and instead of a nice arc lamp changing color on you as it gets older, you will have a gel string burning through, nothing like the color changing on you across fixtures. The arc source vs a incandecent is really not a huge deal. Pratically every moving light has a CTO of some sort in it. I perfer a lamp getting dimmer rather than just burning out with no warning. Lamp intensities i can program around, but burned out lamps i cannot. If you want something similar to an incandescent go with the VL1000 which is not a bad light, or something like a studio spot 575, and go with the MSD lamp, it has the same color temp. I installed several studio spots in schools that have the etc express 48/96 and a few with the 24/48 without any problems.
 

bhallerm

Member
We have two VariLite VL1000's and I will say that they come in handy. Our space is used at least twice a week for full school assemblies. During production designing (3 times a year) when we re-focus or completely move most of our conventional fixtures that usually wash/light the stage, the VL's come in very handy for everything from simple stage wash to moving gobos, spot, etc. Our board isn't the world's best at controlling them, but we make and keep a list of groups for quick call up for different situations.

BJH
 

jxgriffi

Active Member
My understanding was that the gobo in the Vari Light is glass, and therefore more expensive than a cheapo metal M size template. Are you saying that the Vari Lite fixture can use metal M gobos as well?

From Vari-lite Technical Notice:
In some cases, metal gobos have been found, over time, to discolor and warp, fall out of their holders, and interfere with other assemblies or mechanisms in the luminaire. Vari-Lite strongly recommends any customer using metal gobos remove these gobos from their VARI❋LITE luminaire(s) and replace them with Vari-Lite approved glass gobos. Vari-Lite, as well as other gobo vendors, produce and offer suitable glass gobos.

So, VL recommends GLASS gobos. You can still get them from ANY manufacturer, but metal gobos are indeed frowned upon.
 

icewolf08

CBMod
CB Mods
From Vari-lite Technical Notice:
In some cases, metal gobos have been found, over time, to discolor and warp, fall out of their holders, and interfere with other assemblies or mechanisms in the luminaire. Vari-Lite strongly recommends any customer using metal gobos remove these gobos from their VARI❋LITE luminaire(s) and replace them with Vari-Lite approved glass gobos. Vari-Lite, as well as other gobo vendors, produce and offer suitable glass gobos.

Hmm, funny thing, metal gobos do that, no matter what fixture you put them in. You need to change your gobos before they burn up, this is nothing new.
 

jxgriffi

Active Member
I agree Alex....

I've used them in VL1000's before...I was just posting the "official" VL response.
 

Kelite

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
I agree Alex....

I've used them in VL1000's before...I was just posting the "official" VL response.

While attending a tradeshow north of the border a few years ago, George Masek (VL Product Manager) invited my colleague and I to view the inner workings of the then-new VL2000. He stated that using steel gobos would indeed void the manufacturer's warranty, and several VL rental houses were having issues with fixtures returning from rental venues. When opened, steel gobos were found within the damaged rotating wheels.
It's not so much that the steel gobos 'burn out', but that they conduct the heat through to the rotating mechanism, while glass on the other hand will reflect a large amount of heat energy and run cooler.

If one uses their own VL fixtures and doesn't mind the risk when specifying steel gobos, it's their choice. But again, the warranty may not cover damage to the rotator mechanism.

This does make sense and we now only make glass gobos for the VL1k, 2k and 3k fixtures.
 

TimMiller

Well-Known Member
wow, thats a major design flaw in my opinion. I do lots of shows where a school wants to display some logo, the show only runs for a few days, and the gobo is only up when people are comming in, intermission, then leaving. I would have a really hard time trying to sell a school a gobo that is glass b/c of the cost. Metal are much less. I even have schools who buy the typical off the shelf gobos in steel just sized for moving lights to use since those only run about 15 bucks.
 

icewolf08

CBMod
CB Mods
wow, thats a major design flaw in my opinion. I do lots of shows where a school wants to display some logo, the show only runs for a few days, and the gobo is only up when people are comming in, intermission, then leaving. I would have a really hard time trying to sell a school a gobo that is glass b/c of the cost. Metal are much less. I even have schools who buy the typical off the shelf gobos in steel just sized for moving lights to use since those only run about 15 bucks.

Have to agree there, this sounds like a serious design flaw. If the internal workings of the fixture can't take the heat it seems like you have much bigger problems. Sounds to me like a marketing ploy to get people to buy gobos from VL, because I would worry about using a moving light whose internals can't stand the heat of the lamp.
 

MNicolai

Well-Known Member
Fight Leukemia
wow, thats a major design flaw in my opinion. I do lots of shows where a school wants to display some logo, the show only runs for a few days, and the gobo is only up when people are comming in, intermission, then leaving. I would have a really hard time trying to sell a school a gobo that is glass b/c of the cost. Metal are much less. I even have schools who buy the typical off the shelf gobos in steel just sized for moving lights to use since those only run about 15 bucks.



Though I understand where you're coming from, I don't necessarily see how your example applies. Schools which own ML's are hard to come by as is, and I'd pity any that rent ML's and the use them solely (or even just mostly) as curtain warmers.

In absence of a problem-free design though, I'd suggest that maybe the rental companies should have programs which include glass gobo rentals. That is, if they're providing ML fixtures w/ heat dissipation flaws often to groups which wouldn't own their own glass gobos. This is hardly a solution though, only a means of potential means of conducting business until better options arise.

What would concern me more than just gobos is events in the summer, in closed areas, or any other situation where heat from multiple fixtures could raise the temps of the area considerably and have the potential for causing damage as a result.
 

derekleffew

Resident Curmudgeon
Senior Team
Premium Member
...In absence of a problem-free design though, I'd suggest that maybe the rental companies should have programs which include glass gobo rentals. That is, if they're providing ML fixtures w/ heat dissipation flaws often to groups which wouldn't own their own glass gobos. This is hardly a solution though, only a means of potential means of conducting business until better options arise. ...
Some shops do this, but the selection rarely adequate.

For a possible solution, see InLight Gobos - Dallas, Texas.
 

TimMiller

Well-Known Member
I have loads of theatrical gobos that usually make most schools who want a custom effect happy. Also with my key theatrical fixture being x-spots that are totally loaded up with breakups i very rarely get a complaint. I wish i had my studio spot 250's still, i have a lot of really cool gobos for them.
 

gbales

Member
Does anyone know how to properly program the ETC Source Four Revolution? I started out by setting up a node to our second universe. Then I addressed the ML to 513 (DMX), assigned it to channel 513 and addressed the channel to 513. My friend from strand lighting told me this should be the correct way to do it. But when I go to pan/tilt the ML it does not move like I want it to. I also cannot get the modules to work correctly(gobo rotater and iris). For some reason my board does not have the option of selecting these options from the dimmer menu but it comes up on the smart keys. I didn't have trouble with the existing color scroller but when I go to pan from 1 deg to 2 deg the ML moves almost 360 degrees and the tilt moves way more than it should. The second thing I am worried about is I lose control of the intensity and the ML is always at full.PLEASE HELP ME OUT AS SOON AS YOU CAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thanks,
Gary

I am using a Strand Lighting "Light Palette Classic" board to program the movers
 

icewolf08

CBMod
CB Mods
Does anyone know how to properly program the ETC Source Four Revolution? I started out by setting up a node to our second universe. Then I addressed the ML to 513 (DMX), assigned it to channel 513 and addressed the channel to 513. My friend from strand lighting told me this should be the correct way to do it. But when I go to pan/tilt the ML it does not move like I want it to. I also cannot get the modules to work correctly(gobo rotater and iris). For some reason my board does not have the option of selecting these options from the dimmer menu but it comes up on the smart keys. I didn't have trouble with the existing color scroller but when I go to pan from 1 deg to 2 deg the ML moves almost 360 degrees and the tilt moves way more than it should. The second thing I am worried about is I lose control of the intensity and the ML is always at full.PLEASE HELP ME OUT AS SOON AS YOU CAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thanks,
Gary

I am using a Strand Lighting "Light Palette Classic" board to program the movers

First off, if you have you fixture on universe 2 and you want it to be address 513 then you need to set the physical address on the fixture to 1. Each universe runs it's very own set of addresses from 1-512, it is the controller that interprets 2/1 (Universe 2, Address 1) as 513. Setting the physical address of your fixture above 512 will put it into various test programs and standalone modes, it won't really do what you want it to do.

Once you have the physical addressing sorted out, I would recommend that you patch it in just after your last conventional channel, or at least something less arbitrary than channel 513. For instance, if I have conventional fixtures through channel 267 I would make my first moving light channel 301. Helps keep me more organized. To do this you would patch 2/1 (probably 2.1 in Strand syntax or just 513) to channel 301 (or whatever channel you want) and tell it to be a Source 4 Revolution from the fixture library. Make sure that you load the correct Revolution personality as many times there are multiple since you can reconfigure the fixture with different modules. (This is actually superfluous because the DMX Footprint is the same no matter the configuration, but at least in the old 500 series Revolution profiles there were three).

Hope that is helpful. As someone who works with Revs and Strand desks every day, I am happy to try to offer more insight if I can.
 

LXPlot

Active Member
Once you have the physical addressing sorted out, I would recommend that you patch it in just after your last conventional channel, or at least something less arbitrary than channel 513. For instance, if I have conventional fixtures through channel 267 I would make my first moving light channel 301. Helps keep me more organized. To do this you would patch 2/1 (probably 2.1 in Strand syntax or just 513) to channel 301 (or whatever channel you want) and tell it to be a Source 4 Revolution from the fixture library.

Yeah, you would put in 2.1, or if you put in 513 it should autocorrect to 2.1. Also, make sure that you hit patch routing (should be S10, or a similar softkey, while under patch), and set the second DMX universe (513-1024) to live. If it was disabled then you shouldn't have been able to control things in the second universe or receiving data through the second cable. If data is received from a different cable/universe, make sure those are live as well.

I'm going to post a link to Strand Palette OS User Manual so you can read all about this yourself if need be. It should be fully comprehensive.

Also, since ETC Source Four Revolution has different modules and modes, I will add a link to ETC Source Four Revolution User Manual as well.

Finally, you should go to the New Member Forum and type up a formal introduction.
 

gbales

Member
First off, if you have you fixture on universe 2 and you want it to be address 513 then you need to set the physical address on the fixture to 1. Each universe runs it's very own set of addresses from 1-512, it is the controller that interprets 2/1 (Universe 2, Address 1) as 513. Setting the physical address of your fixture above 512 will put it into various test programs and standalone modes, it won't really do what you want it to do.

Once you have the physical addressing sorted out, I would recommend that you patch it in just after your last conventional channel, or at least something less arbitrary than channel 513. For instance, if I have conventional fixtures through channel 267 I would make my first moving light channel 301. Helps keep me more organized. To do this you would patch 2/1 (probably 2.1 in Strand syntax or just 513) to channel 301 (or whatever channel you want) and tell it to be a Source 4 Revolution from the fixture library. Make sure that you load the correct Revolution personality as many times there are multiple since you can reconfigure the fixture with different modules. (This is actually superfluous because the DMX Footprint is the same no matter the configuration, but at least in the old 500 series Revolution profiles there were three).

Hope that is helpful. As someone who works with Revs and Strand desks every day, I am happy to try to offer more insight if I can.


Thank you so much! I am not by any means a "pro" at movers, in fact I only have about 3 months solid experience on this board so any info is a huge improvement for me. I have a show coming up that I am designing and the company wants movers. My boss is an die-hard ETC board guy so he is also lost with the Strand board. I get to play more with them today so hopefully I can get it figured out. However, since our house lights and orchestra lights are all on dimmers running to the board we use almost all 512 of our dimmers in universe 1. If that will mess me up let me know but once again thanks for the solid advice!!!!!
 

icewolf08

CBMod
CB Mods
Thank you so much! I am not by any means a "pro" at movers, in fact I only have about 3 months solid experience on this board so any info is a huge improvement for me. I have a show coming up that I am designing and the company wants movers. My boss is an die-hard ETC board guy so he is also lost with the Strand board. I get to play more with them today so hopefully I can get it figured out. However, since our house lights and orchestra lights are all on dimmers running to the board we use almost all 512 of our dimmers in universe 1. If that will mess me up let me know but once again thanks for the solid advice!!!!!

Using almost all of your dimmers/addresses in universe 1 will not mess you up at all. It is fairly common practice, especially on smaller rigs to use one universe for dimmers and conventional fixtures and then keep moving lights and devices on universe 2. Most higher end lighting controllers (i.e. Strand 500 series, Palette Series, ETC Obsession II, Eos, Ion, Hogs, MAs, etc) are capable of thinking of addresses in either universe format or by full number. However, I think that it helps keep things organized and simpler if you use universe format. Here is the difference:
UNIVERSE FORMAT: 2/239 (universe 2, address 239)
FULL ADDRESS: 751
Why does it work this way? Well, each DMX output on your console is controlled by it's own RS-485 chip. Each data stream can only carry 512 pieces of level information. The data transmission for DMX doesn't actually contain address information, it is just a transmission of levels, each device listens to the data and counts each level bit until it gets to the one that is it's own. If your device is address to 342 then it counts the first 341 bits of information that go by and then it does what the 342nd tells it to do. This is true for any universe of DMX. So, if you were running 20 DMX universes you could have 20 devices whose physical address on the device is 342, but if they are all on separate universes they can be controlled individually.

I hope that makes some sense.

As far as setting up your console goes, the address of the fixture does not have to match the channel number you are patching it to on the console. Now that both Strand and ETC have made it so that a moving light only takes up one channel, it is easy to fit moving lights and devices anywhere in your patch. As I mentioned before, just assign the fixture to a channel and make sure you give it the correct profile from the fixture library on the console.
 

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