Stage Doors & Truck Docks. . .

RonHebbard

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Departed Member
Possibly we could hear from some of our unemployed IA 1 brothers while Broadway's DARK.

How many times have you heard venues complaining about access to their Stage Doors and Truck Docks;
You've likely heard 'em wine more than once:
Can't get the 2nd 53' in 'til the 1st one pulls out.
Had to drop each 53' in our dock(s) and park their cabs elsewhere to clear the street for traffic.
Gotta wait for the cab to return 'n pull the 1st trailer out before the 2nd can get in: And then there are the other 9 53's.

The garbage truck / bin dumper can't get in 'til the beer truck leaves.
The sewer in the ramp of our below grade dock gets clogged; it rains, the water collects & stagnates then the mosquitoes use our dock as a breeding pond.
Winter visits early, the mosquito pond freezes and our manager's Mercedes is frozen in place.

Wuzzah wuzzah POOR Babeez!

PLEASE Local 1 brothers; tell our huddled masses about the quaint access to your "Seven Sisters' Stage Doors then expand on the joys of loading in / out of any of the "girls".
Surely we've a few IA 1 sisters 'n brothers lurking here.
Toodleoo!
Ron Hebbard
 
Anyone with a dock at all is spoiled IMO. Our building was opened in 1940 and we don't have a dock at all. Everything comes down off a ramp or gets forked off next to a set of doors into the building. Then it gets pushed into the house and onto the orchestra pit where it's raised to stage level.
 
Anyone with a dock at all is spoiled IMO. Our building was opened in 1940 and we don't have a dock at all. Everything comes down off a ramp or gets forked off next to a set of doors into the building. Then it gets pushed into the house and onto the orchestra pit where it's raised to stage level.
@techieman33 Do you whip your A F of M musicians or do you have a lift? [Ooooooh. ]
Toodleoo!
Ron Hebbard
 
High on hit list must be Grady Gammage Hall at ASU.

Theatres.

Of all the crappy docks around town it would be the Gammage. They don’t even back a truck down it they just unload up top and push everything down.

The Herberger has a small 2 truck dock that can’t fit a trailer and truck.

Scottsdale Arts has 1 long dock with hardly any room to get anything in and out of a trailer due to storage restraints.

Hotels

A close second is the Paradise Ballroom at the Camelback Inn literally brand new and has NO Dock.

The Tapitio has a parking lot in front of its drive to the dock. So if you can’t drive well or the lot is half full you unload up top and push down a 55 degree grade both ways.

Desert ridge holds 2 trailers with a maybe 6’ pad that is shared with a hotel trollies. So 3’...

The Casino is nice and indoors but rarely sees action. Kind of sad.

The Phoenician also has small landing pads due to shared hotel carts and narrow passages to the ballrooms.
 
Of all the crappy docks around town it would be the Gammage. They don’t even back a truck down it they just unload up top and push everything down.

And curved IIRC.

When I was starting out in theatre I never expected to have to know how to back a trailer into a dock, but I learned what makes it possible and easier versus a b---h.
 
And curved IIRC.

When I was starting out in theatre I never expected to have to know how to back a trailer into a dock, but I learned what makes it possible and easier versus a b---h.

Yep bleeping curved. So if you got a bad caster half way down. You are screwed. I worked one show there and that was enough for me.
 
Our PAC was designed in 1967, built in '68 and opened in 1969. It's round, with 4 auditoriums, one of which doubled as exhibit space. The load in was via the basement, curved ramp access, and your trailer better not be over 38ft (there's a long story about the 48ft trailer that got stuck down there...). When designed, there were no 53 ft semi trailers and a dock would have broken up the circular presentation.

Eventually the city added more exhibit space to the south end and built a proper dock but access to the main PAC building is a long-ass push and the Convention Hall needs to be empty to reach its orchestra pit lift to get goods to the stage level.

The circular nature of the facility means the stages are trapezoidal and all back up to a central service core, with a freight elevator to the basement. Items pushed from the dock go to the Convention Hall pit lift at floor level, are brought up to stage level and then pushed through the central service space and onto the Concert Hall stage.

If the Expo Hall or its dock are in use, the shows have to unload in the front of PAC, through a glass wall (slides out), and to the pit lift. It's a shorter push but the plaza in front of the building has a 10% slope, so the trailers are fun to unload. Fork lifts have "fun" dealing with this, too.

Until a few days before the novel corona virus hit, our City was planning on redeveloping a 3 city block area to build a new PAC, separate convention center, and lease out land for new hotels and other business use. Not quite sure what the status of that is but right now the City is using the PAC basement as... well, they aren't really saying (meaning Emergency Management space) and the Expo hall was turned into an ambulance and paramedic gear disinfection station... They officially closed the buildings and revoked all our prox cards and CyberKeys. My IATSE Local has office space in the building and have been locked out. We had less than 24 hours notice.
 
Another "back down and turn" access was in Huntington, WV at Marshall University field house. It's been 25 years since I was there but I recall about 6 inches of clearance on either side of the truck from the HVAC duct work, and getting the turn at the bottom was... challenging. IIRC we backed down to the most level point and unloaded rather than try to make the turn. I wouldn't be surprised if the field house has been replaced.
 
Century II Performing Arts & Convention Center - one of Izenour's. Oh my.
Some things were done right. Much was myopic. The budget was, of course, overrun prior to completion and some important things eliminated. And knowing the history was why I asked you a few months ago if you'd already taken your last, per-retirement project...
 
I renovated one Izenour project - that's enough. I see they plan to replace. Notto be pessimistic but I'm guessing the pandemic will delay that well past my "best if used by" date.
 
I'm not officially a local 1, but I have enough experience from the shop and running around with friends consulting in the city on projects that I've seen my fair share.... my first reaction is if by dock you mean 40 something street at some ungodly hour of overnight when we can get a street permit to be able to unload a truck we can start there.... that's getting a truck to the venue on time after it getting stuck in traffic in the tunnel for who knows how long because the bridge was under construction and was going to take longer. Then the forkliftS that's right multiple to get it off the truck and onto the sidewalk, please the sidewalk and not the street....

After that it's not so bad. It's an exact art and a science to build everything in the shop as much as possible to fit it through the "dock" door. What most passer by's wouldn't realize is that they often walk right by a door that leads directly onto stage or maybe into a light lock and then onto stage, but rare. Most houses have a custom ramp that gets them up from the sidewalk to deck height and then you're in. Most of the Broadway houses exist before lifts and most decks are actually at "street" level and the houses were carved out inside lowering the seats so that the stage appears elevated.

The houses to watch out for are the offstage venues that have been shoehorned into who knows where. Theatre Row and New World Stage are examples of venues we all work in that we wish we didn't have to load anything in / out. Everything EVERYTHING is below grade and only accessible via lifts. By lifts I mean it fits in the lift, or you get your gym workout in in carrying it down the stairs or build it when you get there. Always prepare for stairs. There are always stairs.
 
I'm not officially a local 1, but I have enough experience from the shop and running around with friends consulting in the city on projects that I've seen my fair share.... my first reaction is if by dock you mean 40 something street at some ungodly hour of overnight when we can get a street permit to be able to unload a truck we can start there.... that's getting a truck to the venue on time after it getting stuck in traffic in the tunnel for who knows how long because the bridge was under construction and was going to take longer. Then the forkliftS that's right multiple to get it off the truck and onto the sidewalk, please the sidewalk and not the street....

After that it's not so bad. It's an exact art and a science to build everything in the shop as much as possible to fit it through the "dock" door. What most passer by's wouldn't realize is that they often walk right by a door that leads directly onto stage or maybe into a light lock and then onto stage, but rare. Most houses have a custom ramp that gets them up from the sidewalk to deck height and then you're in. Most of the Broadway houses exist before lifts and most decks are actually at "street" level and the houses were carved out inside lowering the seats so that the stage appears elevated.

The houses to watch out for are the offstage venues that have been shoehorned into who knows where. Theatre Row and New World Stage are examples of venues we all work in that we wish we didn't have to load anything in / out. Everything EVERYTHING is below grade and only accessible via lifts. By lifts I mean it fits in the lift, or you get your gym workout in in carrying it down the stairs or build it when you get there. Always prepare for stairs. There are always stairs.
@MRW Lights THANK YOU for a GREAT START.
Please go on; explain about the joys of parking your 7 x 53' out in the boonies; down to earth (paved parking level) corral ing everything, double diagonal'ing many items into too MANY 24' or 26' box trucks with their rear doors not quite closed Red flags and Police escorts to get them in and out of downtown.
Add the the off duty police you're paying to keep close watch on the:
9 Pinball machines
7 Motorcycles
and the host of other
(shiny attractive trinkets the urchins of the night are ITCHING to help you carry)
props you're trying to keep within your allowed length of sidewalk.

The sheer number of IA one lads you're paying to unload from your now endless parade of double diagonally packed box trucks with their loads hanging out the back and Red Flagged being escorted in and out of town by teams of NYPD motorcycle cops.

ADD the other herd of IA lasses and laddies who're picking from amongst your props on the sidewalk and carrying them into the Shubert's lobby and marshaling them there for the 3rd herd of local 1's finest, the more senior who remain in the theatre where they and their shoes remain dry rather than soaked by the rain the rest of us are working in.
The 1/4" ply + tarps protecting the lobby's 'publicly presentable ' carpet from the feet of the poor DRENCHED 'lesser Goddesses and Gods who are working out in the rain all night.
Don't forget the fourth crew of even more insignificant offspring who're out in the boonies off loading your seven 53's into the endless parade of 24's and 26'ers driving laps to 'n fro' a parking lot in New Jersey and the HEART of Broadway.

Don't forget how many extra hands you're paying to avoid pushing any one person past their mandatory Meal, Coffee, and washroom breaks.

Add the carefully coordinated parade of vending vehicles travelling to 'n fro' to make sure everyone can have their breaks including Gluten Free and other allergic requirements. The additional motor cycle cops circling in teams of two police escorting the vending trucks.

Appreciate the hours you began paying the crews in New Jersey who're eventually the first to end their calls.
Realize some of them have sufficient seniority to drive into downtown and 'bump' their kin to maximize their incomes.

Do all of this in the heart of Times Square where the New York Times are running their 12 or 14 presses NON STOP 24 / 7 with their own parade of trucks driving laps toting paper to feed their presses AND their second parade of trucks to rush papers to news distributors and airports.

To put a little icing on the cake:
The Shubert's long serving and VERY senior Head House Carpenter had retired and worked his last call the day before.
His replacement was a SENIOR gentleman ~75 who was only ever referred to as "Doc".
I NEVER saw "Doc" other than when he rolled in hours after the rest of us, sat it his comfy recliner USLC drinking coffee for several hours, then departed for the remainder of his day.
Doc' had done many, MANY, MANY, load ins over the course of his career.
This was Doc's 1st load in in his new theatre. An ENDLESS parade of very senior Local 1 members paraded through to 'Rag the excrement out of Doc' on the occasion of his 1st load in; 1st in his new theatre, but clearly not Doc's first.
The endless parade of visitors attending to pay their respects included senior members with surnames like Altman, Feller, and other brothers you've possibly heard of.
Try loading your show into the Shubert when the ever growing circle of stools, office chairs, stacking chairs, et al was expanding exponentially as visitors dropped by with mysterious little brown bags for Doc' to dilute his coffee and then hung around for 2 to 3 hours to "Help" Doc' through his first load in. Deck space was at a premium, not even the senior local 1 members assigned to Head our various departments were willing to crowd Doc's circle of willing "Helpers".

It was fun and a great tribute to Doc'; Oh how much valuable stage space Doc's enclave occupied.
Then, almost as suddenly as they appeared: The ENTIRE gathering dispersed leaving only 2 or 3 dozen chairs, along with brown bags, beer can ash trays, and the remnants of a great party behind.

That sorta covers loading in and thank you @MRW Lights for breaking the ice; if a geezer from North of Donnie's walls told this tale, fewer than zero readers would find it even remotely credible.

Now, PLEASE, someone post a little about the Stage Door's of the Seven Sisters, the interesting path to them and even more interesting accommodations afforded their Stage Door guards.
PLEASE! BRING IT ON!!
 
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Our house was built in the Vaudeville era, and the stage and loading doors were a few feet above the alley. A few decades back, they raised the alley. Now, there are stairs to the stage door, and a fairly flat ramp to the deck. I want to hug whoever on the city made that happen, our shop is in a remote building and we produce everything that plays (no traveling show, it's community theatre); we know EXACTLY what fits thru that door. Not that we've ever made an error...
 
Our house was built in the Vaudeville era, and the stage and loading doors were a few feet above the alley. A few decades back, they raised the alley. Now, there are stairs to the stage door, and a fairly flat ramp to the deck. I want to hug whoever on the city made that happen, our shop is in a remote building and we produce everything that plays (no traveling show, it's community theatre); we know EXACTLY what fits thru that door. Not that we've ever made an error...
@tjrobb
Expanding upon building to fit through stage doors:

When you're with an automation and scenery shop in Canada building for theatres in Germany and London, England; you don't want to ship anything across the Atlantic that's not going to fit through the doors when it arrives at the venue.

Each time we built for a remote venue including Broadway, our owner sought accurate dimensions for the smallest doorways we'd encounter anywhere along the way.
A wooden frame of the exact dimensions was erected immediately inside our shop up against our load out door; if it wouldn't pass through the frame (diagonally was fair game) there was Zero to be gained by loading it in a truck or ocean going shipping container.
Toodleoo!
Ron Hebbard
 
Most houses have a custom ramp that gets them up from the sidewalk to deck height and then you're in. Most of the Broadway houses exist before lifts and most decks are actually at "street" level and the houses were carved out inside lowering the seats so that the stage appears elevated.

While not a Broadway house MSG does not follow that model at all. The arena floor is 5 stories up. Last summer we had 20 forklifts split among 3 trades to get our show from street level to the top of the ramp. While not ideal if you stay out of the way and give clear direction the gear will get where it needs to go. I think we were about an hour over our normal out there. I know some people hate the Barclays Center and it's elevator and turntable but with a little planning and VIP guest management it hasn't been an issue for me. Maybe 10-15 minutes slower than average with 15-20 trucks.
 
While not a Broadway house MSG does not follow that model at all. The arena floor is 5 stories up. Last summer we had 20 forklifts split among 3 trades to get our show from street level to the top of the ramp. While not ideal if you stay out of the way and give clear direction the gear will get where it needs to go. I think we were about an hour over our normal out there. I know some people hate the Barclays Center and it's elevator and turntable but with a little planning and VIP guest management it hasn't been an issue for me. Maybe 10-15 minutes slower than average with 15-20 trucks.

MSG Entertainment and their properties, plus Barclays Center and The Met stand in a category all their own. We could spend an entire thread (and I think there are some here somewhere) on each of these venues and their specific technologies individually developed for all of them. Though my favorite may always be Radio City. Technically not the oldest by name... but the oldest "longest operating" of its kind. The one thing they all share in common is that they are each the best at operating their own venues.
 
While not a Broadway house MSG does not follow that model at all. The arena floor is 5 stories up. Last summer we had 20 forklifts split among 3 trades to get our show from street level to the top of the ramp. While not ideal if you stay out of the way and give clear direction the gear will get where it needs to go. I think we were about an hour over our normal out there. I know some people hate the Barclays Center and it's elevator and turntable but with a little planning and VIP guest management it hasn't been an issue for me. Maybe 10-15 minutes slower than average with 15-20 trucks.
@soundman I appreciate your mention of MSG. "Doc" was officially IA 1's designated carp' for our load in:
A MUCH younger gentleman arrived VERY shortly after we had a chain gang running laps from the lobby to he stage edge and humping things up WITHOUT trashing any upholstered seat in the process.
The MUCH younger gentleman was ~32 - 35 and had been "sprung" from MSG, told to serve as "Doc's" hands, arms and legs for ~4 hours then high tail it back to MSG; he willingly stayed past his quitting time to make certain our In was completed to everyone's satisfaction.

Even though I was the lowly 2nd assistant LX ( Lead spot op' called cues to the other two spots) I liked the fellow instantly: He was polite, organized, gung ho, your other IA 1 lads instantly jumped to attention and carried out his orders. As he was making his exit, I said: "All I can think of is my spot and stool are too low to see out the window of your spot booth."

Up to the rear of the 2nd balcony we dashed: He looked at what we'd brought, took a few measurements and assured me he'd have an 8 or 9 inch riser in place by the time I reappeared the next morning. I left my spot, its stand, and my stool outside the booth when I left.
When I rolled in the next morning his custom built riser measured to fit the available floor space was in situ with a note: "Please wait 3 hours for the glue to dry" and signed his name.

Good guy. Knew his name at the time and probably remembered his name for a year or two.
Three decades later, 1990's a blur. If perchance you're able to connect with one of your MSG predecessors, assure him he's not been forgotten.

Neither has a young black gentleman named Ron Altman: Same given name as mine and who could forget Altman. Young Ronnie Altman was another of IA 1's REALLY good guys.

Another of your MSG guys was my SL / HR spot op' atop four frames of scaffold for several weeks (I was able to stay with the show for 6 weeks past opening as the fellow IA 1's Production LX wanted to slot into my position was under contract in another house for 5 weeks past our opening night.)
We had Zero spot cues for the first 45 minutes of Act 1 and thus a lot of time for chit chat.
Your mate from MSG provided the best comeback I recall.
We'd been talking about how people work their way in to our end of the business.
I explained we had two steel mills in town working 3 shifts 24 / 7 thus there were always off shift steel workers available for grunt work at odd hours: after enough years, they work their way in by osmosis.

Your MSG mate came right back with:
"Ya, it's sorta like that over at the Gardens, every now and again one of our guys gets hitched to one of our Rockettes. When they have a kid with his looks and her brains, we just gotta take him in. What else can ya do?"

He totally blind sided me, the concept of comparing off shift steel workers in Stelco / Dofasco to sons of Rockettes totally upset my equilibriium.
Thanks again Mr. MSG / @soundman for rekindling great memories.
Toodleoo!
Ron Hebbard
 

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