Stage Haze

[jonhirsh]

"i just talked to our td about this today, the house in the show is suppoed to burn down n have haze/smoke but they want to use fog, but last time they used for "if would shoot out then need to heat up again n it goes out into the house n stays there" so i said if its a filled stage thing, use a hazer"

Um depending on the effect the opinions vary smoke (fog) is dense and thick it will hang in the air for a period of time and then disipate. it can be use to fill a whole stage multiple units may be needed depending on the desierd effect. depending on the air circulation the time it takes to fill the stage will vary.

Haze is used for a light breakup in the light to make the beam visiable. it is non aparent unless light is going thru it unlike fog. it takes longer to disapate. the hang time is much longer due to lighter particles. it is not an instant effect it takes time to move the haze around the stage even with fans in use. it will not give you a cloud effect for fires and other types of effects. haze is used primarly before the show starts not as an effect during the show but there are always exceptions to the rule



" he said whats that....ugh why are ppl like that allowed to be td's (esp when they break thier leg by walking "tripping" on unbraced ramp legs"

These are the same types of people that say no fog and haze are to dangerous lets use dry ice. but studies have shown there are no short term health effects with fog and haze and very few long term ones with severly heavey useage. on the other hand dry ice is co2 a deadly gas (much safer lol )

"ne advice on what to do for the haze effect...so that i can give them somehting "
if you want haze tell them you will rent a foger and get a hazer they wont know the differnce if they are inexpericaned but hey i think for the effect you described two or three fogers depending on the size of your space would do the trick

the reason to have more then one is that a fogger can only give off so much before it needs to reheat so if you have two you can cover half the deck with each one


hope this helps

Jon Hirsh

 

[koncept]

it helps a great deal thank you

 

[jonhirsh]

No problem

 

[Tex]

co2 a deadly gas

I know a couple of trees who would disagree...

 

[DuckJordan]

I know a couple of trees who would disagree...

This thread is old, and as such i will State "Necropost" although new information needs to be added to this and should be so ASAP, Most fog and haze fluid are required to be water based, OIL BASED fluids are harmful to everyone and pretty sure OSHA has pretty much demanded a cease use on these things.

As far as using haze being a concern to an audience unless your house is either about the size of an average dorm for a single fog or haze machine to cause serious health concerns your going to need way more than whats required to make an effect. I know last year here they did for peter pan a giant wall of fog flow into the audience after intermission, (filled an area 30x20x20 feet area full of fog in 10 minutes to create a rolling wall of fog) didn't cause any health issue except the occasional cough.

 

[len]

A can of diffusion is good enough for your living room. But not for a stage. Remember, it's not just the stage, but the wings, the house, backstage, etc. Air moves and you really don't have much control on how and where, unless you're in a bubble. And it will move differently from day to day depending on temperature, humidity, etc.

Your cheapo party fogger may do the trick, or maybe not. But a good quality hazer will likely not be that much to rent, and when you factor in the cost of the garbage fluid you use with those cheap foggers, and how much you'll use, and the lack of dependability factor, a hazer rental is not that much more money. A good hazer will use about 2 teaspoons of fluid or less.

 

[derekleffew]

... Most fog and haze fluid are required to be water based, OIL BASED fluids are harmful to everyone and pretty sure OSHA has pretty much demanded a cease use on these things. ...

Incorrect on so many levels. For starters, see the MSDS for the DF-50 Diffusion Fogger, probably the most-used hazer.

 

[Pie4Weebl]

Incorrect on so many levels. For starters, see the MSDS for the DF-50 Diffusion Fogger, probably the most-used hazer.

WHY DIDN'T YOU POST THIS EARLIER!? I saw ducks post, immediately notified management of their oversight and we threw out hundreds of hazers this afternoon!

 

[soundlight]

although new information needs to be added to this and should be so ASAP, Most fog and haze fluid are required to be water based, OIL BASED fluids are harmful to everyone and pretty sure OSHA has pretty much demanded a cease use on these things.

Just so I'm sure I've got all of my bases covered here:

Reel EFX
(This uses the fluid in the MSDS that Derek posted)

CITC FX - "Cool Stuff is Show Tuff!®" - Special Effects Equipment
http://www.citcfx.com/msds/MSDS-High-Performance-Fluid.pdf

American DJ Homepage
http://www.americandj.com/pdffiles/haze_juice_msds.pdf

Elation Professional - Professional Lighting Products
Elation Professional - Professional Lighting Products
Elation Professional - Professional Lighting Products

HAZE 400 FT
HAZE 500 FT Pro

That's not all of them, but I think I've got a good number covered. If you didn't catch that - oil-based hazers are still in use and are probably still at the top as far as haze goes. I will be spec'ing DF-50s until something else becomes the de facto standard and is stocked by companies that I work for on a daily basis.

 

[DuckJordan]

Just so I'm sure I've got all of my bases covered here:

Reel EFX
(This uses the fluid in the MSDS that Derek posted)

CITC FX - "Cool Stuff is Show Tuff!®" - Special Effects Equipment
http://www.citcfx.com/msds/MSDS-High-Performance-Fluid.pdf

American DJ Homepage
http://www.americandj.com/pdffiles/haze_juice_msds.pdf

Elation Professional - Professional Lighting Products
Elation Professional - Professional Lighting Products
Elation Professional - Professional Lighting Products

HAZE 400 FT
HAZE 500 FT Pro

That's not all of them, but I think I've got a good number covered. If you didn't catch that - oil-based hazers are still in use and are probably still at the top as far as haze goes. I will be spec'ing DF-50s until something else becomes the de facto standard and is stocked by companies that I work for on a daily basis.

I guess I am wrong, just relaying something my professor said here at the university, I may have been incorrect on the OSHA standpoint of the hazers but Oil is defiantly not safe on lungs since it will just sit in your lungs.

 

[soundlight]

I guess I am wrong, just relaying something my professor said here at the university, I may have been incorrect on the OSHA standpoint of the hazers but Oil is defiantly not safe on lungs since it will just sit in your lungs.

If it wasn't safe, the AEA wouldn't allow it. They're pretty much the most uptight group about effects of fog and haze on health out there.

And I quote: "oral exposure to mineral oil is essentially innocuous" (bottom of page II-9 in the report linked below).

You can find that quote and much more useful information on the hard facts of this issue in the AEA document found here: http://www.actorsequity.org/docs/safesan/finalreport.pdf

You will also notice in reading that report that people consume mineral oil in a number of other ways, as it is fairly common.

 

[DuckJordan]

If it wasn't safe, the AEA wouldn't allow it. They're pretty much the most uptight group about effects of fog and haze on health out there.

And I quote: "oral exposure to mineral oil is essentially innocuous" (bottom of page II-9 in the report linked below).

You can find that quote and much more useful information on the hard facts of this issue in the AEA document found here: http://www.actorsequity.org/docs/safesan/finalreport.pdf

You will also notice in reading that report that people consume mineral oil in a number of other ways, as it is fairly common.

Ingestion and inhalation are two separate things. While one has no problems consuming smoked barbecue, the same person would have qualms with smoking a cigarette, I am by no means a medical expert but Lungs cannot process fluids the same way your digestion system can, which means that certain things stay in your lungs forever (or until medically removed). Ever heard of pneumonia, its a build up of liquid in your lungs, whether that be water, mucous or some other liquid its still fluid in your lungs.

 

[ToddH]

It is not recommended using haze fluid in a fogger. Unless it is a really cheap fogger you don't care about. You will probably damage the heater core.

 

[soundlight]

Ingestion and inhalation are two separate things. While one has no problems consuming smoked barbecue, the same person would have qualms with smoking a cigarette, I am by no means a medical expert but Lungs cannot process fluids the same way your digestion system can, which means that certain things stay in your lungs forever (or until medically removed). Ever heard of pneumonia, its a build up of liquid in your lungs, whether that be waeter, mucous or some other liquid its still fluid in your lungs.

Did you read all of that document? Understanding particulate concentrations and what they mean as far as health risks is something to understand - again, discussed in the document. Concentrations that are useable are perfectly safe. If you put enough haze in the air to really be an issue, visibility would suck - and thus the stage show wouldn't be all that visible. Please, please do your research - that document has everything you need to know. There wouldn't be DF-50s used all over the world on a daily basis if there were that severe of a health risk as you suggest. Every single arena show that I have worked and seen a spec for has a DF-50 on it, and rental houses have them as standard items. In fact, the place where I work has probably 10 to 15 of them, and we're just a regional company. They go out all of the time.

In short, if there was as much of a health risk as you suggest, the people that are exposed to them every day on the jobsite would be experiencing significant health issues beccasue of them. They don't, and that's that, 'cause oil-based hazers have been proven to be perfectly safe.

 

[seanandkate]

If it wasn't safe, the AEA wouldn't allow it. They're pretty much the most uptight group about effects of fog and haze on health out there.

And I quote: "oral exposure to mineral oil is essentially innocuous" (bottom of page II-9 in the report linked below).

You can find that quote and much more useful information on the hard facts of this issue in the AEA document found here: http://www.actorsequity.org/docs/safesan/finalreport.pdf

You will also notice in reading that report that people consume mineral oil in a number of other ways, as it is fairly common.

Ingestion and inhalation are two separate things. While one has no problems consuming smoked barbecue, the same person would have qualms with smoking a cigarette, I am by no means a medical expert but Lungs cannot process fluids the same way your digestion system can, which means that certain things stay in your lungs forever (or until medically removed). Ever heard of pneumonia, its a build up of liquid in your lungs, whether that be water, mucous or some other liquid its still fluid in your lungs.

You're both right according to the conclusions (Section VI-5):

E. Conclusions
The overall results of this study of the effects of theatrical smoke, haze and pyrotechnics indicate that there are health effects associated with Actors exposed to elevated or peak levels of glycol smoke and mineral oil. However, as long as exposures are kept below the guidelines described below, Actors in general should not suffer adverse impacts to their health or their vocal abilities. Mineral oil, for the most part, does not appear to have as significant an effect on Actors, provided that the exposures are minimized and uniform, rather than in concentrated bursts. Pyrotechnics as currently used on Broadway did not have a significant effect on Actors’ health.

Ahh...like so many other things, it's not the tool--it's how you use it.

PS -- Thanks for the link to the article, soundlight. Good read.

 

[soundlight]

PS -- Thanks for the link to the article, soundlight. Good read.

Glad to provide - in my opinion, it's the best document available on the subject - I haven't been able to find another out there.

Also, the day that I hear about "concentrated bursts" coming from a DF-50 - that'll be the day. The very nature of the beast (as with all other oil-based hazers that I've used) is a low concentration, uniform distribution of haze. (Unless the ventilation system is fighting you, in which case it can be a very ununiform distribution of haze...)