Stage Lighting For Video Questions

squigish -

Thanks for your advice. Your solutions are correct, however we are trying to cover way to large of a stage with too few ellipsoidals. That's why I would like to buy some fresnels, so we dont have to spend alot of time re-aiming, etc. Plus, for a state of the art theatre, we really need to have some fresnels.

And to your side note...

Yes. Large churches (in comparrison to small, conservative churches) would be considered more of a theatrical performance. However, one thign you have to keep in mind is that our church is geared more toward the younger audience.

Our congregations culture demands uses of current-day media to present our messages. However, there is a fine line taht we have to be careful of.. using technology to enhance the message of our pastor and just being flashy and distracting.

However, sometimes we purposely cross that line to see what our congregation wants (or does not want).

It's all about the culture. The way we do things wouldn't work in your church, or any other church that doesn't share a similar culture.

I've worked in secular technical theatre before, and LOVE my job in the church. Your allowed to be a techy, but also be creative, be apart of the design process. YOu try new things each week, it's spontanious and I love it. If your ever in Northern Washington state give me a ring, and I'll give you a tour :).
 
Peter said:
Sqiglish, I am not sure I am completely following what you mean with the slinky method (yes, sorry, I know I am slow, but it has been a long day). How would one area be covered by 4 lights in the way you are describing? Maybe MS paint would help if you want to e-mail me a pic i'll put it on my server to link here (or dave could do the same thing) or if you just want to try again in words.

First of all, I want to say that in my previous post, I confused beam and field angles. The beam angle is smaller than the field angle.

For a good illustration of the "slinky method," although they don't call it that, see http://www.stagelight.com/pdf/HOW2FixWeb.pdf

At the beginning it's just an advertisement thingy, but if you scroll down to the third page, there's a nice graphic there. I suppose I could have captured it and put it on my photobucket account and then posted it here, but it seemed easier just to give the url of the pdf file.

zachw250 said:
Large churches (in comparrison to small, conservative churches...

Keep in mind though, that small does not necessarily mean conservative. I attend what I would call a mid-size church (If I had to take a ballpark guess I'd say our sancuary seats 300,) and we're very liberal. Of course, some of that goes along with being UCC...
 
Zac (not to drive this topic too far off topic ... wow that made sense) I find it very intersting that you ajust what you do @ your church to fit what people want, I have always seen Church as doing what God wants us to do, not the other way arround (not like I am being forced to do stuff for him, but He lays down a way for things to be done in the Bible and that is how we do them...) Just a bit different I guess (and I cant really say I agree with it.... but I digress)

Back on topic: Ah ok thanks that pdf clears things up greatly. I think we are already doing something similar, but we did it by just having a guy on stage walk back and forth and moving one light towards the other until we achieved even lighting across where he was, and then moved the next light in. We did this across the stage twice, once with all our lights on the left half of the pipe, and once with those on the right side, so we get two lights across the whole area of our stage. I dont know if it's the hang angles or what, but we can only get one row across the front of our stage, or we shine on the curtain above the stage... Not really sure how to work around this, but what we have now works. Thanks for the extra info!
 
Peter. Depending on your stage, it is common to only light the front areas from FOH. The next row of area lighting is normaly done with lights above the stage. Quite often it's FOH - ellipsoids, Over Stage - Fresnels and /or PC's. But as you say what you have works for you.
 
God doesn't normally give us too much direction for our technical aspirations. It's our job to help the pastor get the sermon that he has been given direction from God on to the congregation.

What I meant by pushign the congregation, is finding new ways to enhance & deliver the message through technical means. I hope this helps.

Your right, its not about us. It's about God. It is however, up to us to make sure that all generations hear & understand the message however they need to experience it, to understand it. ZW
 
zackw250 said:
squigish -

However, there is a fine line taht we have to be careful of.. using technology to enhance the message of our pastor and just being flashy and distracting.

:).

Well said in balancing the presentation with the word and intent. Some places have different budgets and balances than others, but the intent is the same in being a balance in presentation.

Still as noted, beam verses field angle that you might wish to merge in becoming say a secondary beam angle by way of intensity is a large point in design here. This what ever fixture you use.

In earlier it noted such filters or adjustments to the video, it would seem that this wash of an even light across the stage is the major factor afterwards. A Fresnel or PAR in providing that even wash of field angles meshing up to each other for a balanced wash is very key to you in using the video.

Perhaps the Fresnels are correct esepcially with barn doors to direct the beam of light for this balance, than for key lighting positions, more Leko based lighting in more than being seen and instead making them "pop" lighting. This than with the video needs to be closely matched with the diffreence in general illumination and the highlight of the speaker's platform. What's more in providing good light for video, even if color corrected for incandescent, you still need to provide for the live audience's enjoyment.

I expect that once you get this wash in making them natural as they are on or cross the stage, and they get to the platform will be something to tinker with both in converging beam spreads and in color temperature boosting for some things. While I don't work in a video world, I expect that a lot of tinkering with the video look verses the live look once you get your video balancing walk across the stage will be necessary. Plan upon it. Were it easy, lighting could be done by a architect or could be done by an artist. You need to become some form of both and more.
 
Americans.....

I have never understood why Americans tend to use ellipsoidals (profiles to me) for their washes. Over here in New Zealand, i have seen, more often than not, Fresnels being used for washes from FOH and over the stage. Fresnels blend a whole lot better than profiles, making them my number one choice for area lighting. Sorry if anyone thinks i'm having a go at you, or at the way you do things. I don't mean it like that at all, just wondering. :) Depending on the size of the area, I would go for 1.2k or maybe 2k fresnels.

David
 
I don't think anyone would take offense at your question. It is seeking to understand things we do in comparison with what you do. I think both are the same page, just mis-understood for application within the context of the discussion.

For most televised presentations, Studio Fresnels as opposed to the more theatrical ones discussed here would be used. For the theater, the largest Fresnel one might find is a 8" 1Kw Fresnel and while you only need a few of them to wash a stage, a fresnel is more for short throw wash.

Depends upon the church, but given it has a high ceiling and wide expanse it might be hard to use it for a wash of light that was not spilling over everything and have very limited intensity due to throw distance.

Where wash of light is needed, a Fresnel will work well in general. Where more remote, from certain specific positions or on a budget a PAR will often otherwise work. For long distances of wash however a Leko is more used in a way similar to the PC beams often used in Europe given the more controlled beam of light. The Leko however has a more controllable beam of light than that of a Profile, and one that can loose it's hard edge in making it seem as if Fresnel where necessary.

This all in discussion of a wash of light as opposed to using the directional Leko beam for spotlighting purposes. As a down light and even fill light in acting as an overhead light fixture you are correct that a Fresnel would provide a more even wash of light.

However also given the wattage of a Studio Fresnel, the church in discussion probably does not have either budget for the fixtures or power available. If they had, this will not have been a discussion of what else and how to use it. Much less I would doubt the rigging sufficient to hang studio fixtures. More stage based fixtures I assume were more within budget much less lighter in weight.

Question than is given it's what is already in stock or within as a group able to purchase, how can they be made to work.


Don't know if it helps, but it's at least my understanding of it.
 

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