Stage windows

Andrew McMillan

New Member
Hi All

I need to prepare technical drawings for our theatre workshop team to build a non-practical double sash hung Georgian window (see image below). For context it will sit approx 6m upstage in front of a cyc. The lit cyc doesn’t need to be seen through the window but the window does need to be independently lit from behind for night scenes. Considering curtains in the window.

A few questions…

1. Are there standard sized Timbers to use for stage window railings, stiles, jambs and architrave trim?

2. I’ve read to pit fly wire on the lower sash and blacked out calico on the upper sash. Would this be effective and with window curtains behind or should I consider other materials?

3. Perspex windows or not necessary? Would they reflect too much light?

I don’t know much about carpentry or joinery but would like to get better at understanding construction and so I can draft quality technical drawings, especially section drawings.

4. What books, DVDs, websites or other resources do you suggest? Are there any standard texts that cover technical drawing for theatre and go into detail about making windows, doors, trucks etc?

Thanks Andrew
 

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First of all remember no one in the audience will see it closer than 6-8m so it does not have to be perfect. I normally look ratios for the XY and keep that ratio so it looks right. What you build it out of is then up to you (or the builder). Next question is does it fly in or will it be on a wagon/truck, build into a wall that is fixed? That will answer the what materials to build it out of.
Lighting from the front or the back?
Once these questions are answered then we can give a bit more guidance.
Regards
Geoff
 
You can build a window, including as much or little detail as you'd like; see any finish carpentry book. Or buy one from your local orange box or any window supplier in town. Usual question: tine vs. $$.
 
First of all remember no one in the audience will see it closer than 6-8m so it does not have to be perfect. I normally look ratios for the XY and keep that ratio so it looks right. What you build it out of is then up to you (or the builder). Next question is does it fly in or will it be on a wagon/truck, build into a wall that is fixed? That will answer the what materials to build it out of.
Lighting from the front or the back?
Once these questions are answered then we can give a bit more guidance.
Regards
Geoff
Hi Geoff. The window will be in a fixed flat lit from the front for day scenes and from the back for night scenes. Thanks Andrew
 
Hi Geoff. The window will be in a fixed flat lit from the front for day scenes and from the back for night scenes. Thanks Andrew
Well that makes it easy then. Building into a wall that is already on stage you don't really need glass or acrylic. When I did Peter Pan we lit from behind for the opening scene and then lit from the front. Just be aware that you have enough space behind to get the angle of the shot desired.
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Oh and by the way the wall paper is florist paper used to wrap flowers in. It comes in a 50m roll and is 50cm wide.
Hope this helps a little.
Geoff
 
Also, buy this book if you don't have it. I can't recall immediately if it goes in depth into windows, but it'll give A LOT of information about joinery and basic construction that can jumpstart A LOT of answers...

Somewhere between the chicken legs and front loading washers you might find some helpful answers for this and lots of other projects.

 
If I'm lighting a set with a window, I prefer them to be unglazed, or at least to have the "glass" obscured by a curtain of some type. Reflections can be a real distraction.
 
In addition to the Backstage Handbook, The Stock Scenery Construction Handbook is a great resource to learn theatre carpentry. I don't have my copy in front of me, so I'm not sure if there are instructions for building window reveals, but if you are learning how to build scenery, I would fully recommend buying a copy.

In the meantime, you could run to a hardware store that sells windows with a tape measure, find a window you like, and make a quick drawing with measurements. then you can take that back to your shop and replicate it with the resources you have. (Since you say Perspex instead of Plexiglass, I'm assuming you buy lumber in metric dimensions instead of freedom units so I'll use those.) If I were building this window, I'd probably build the outside frame with 19x89mm lumber and the window panes with 19x38mm lumber joined together with pocket holes. If I didn't have a pocket hole jig, I'd rip down some 9.5 or 12.5mm plywood into the thickness I want and then glue and brad nail the pieces together, with a double thickness of plywood on the vertical braces between the horizontal pieces (so the audience side of the window is all in the same plane). Then, depending on how far the window is from the audience and how detailed you want it to be, you could add some molding pieces and other trim details.

As far as finishing, you could look at stapling some sheer fabric to the back side of the window, depending on the look you want. This thread has a couple of pictures of different materials you could look into using for that. I don't think you would want to use any perspex panes, as they would have some pretty bad glare from the stage lights. On the audience side of the window you could hang any curtains you want for stage dressing.
 
You can build a window, including as much or little detail as you'd like; see any finish carpentry book. Or buy one from your local orange box or any window supplier in town. Usual questi
In addition to the Backstage Handbook, The Stock Scenery Construction Handbook is a great resource to learn theatre carpentry. I don't have my copy in front of me, so I'm not sure if there are instructions for building window reveals, but if you are learning how to build scenery, I would fully recommend buying a copy.

In the meantime, you could run to a hardware store that sells windows with a tape measure, find a window you like, and make a quick drawing with measurements. then you can take that back to your shop and replicate it with the resources you have. (Since you say Perspex instead of Plexiglass, I'm assuming you buy lumber in metric dimensions instead of freedom units so I'll use those.) If I were building this window, I'd probably build the outside frame with 19x89mm lumber and the window panes with 19x38mm lumber joined together with pocket holes. If I didn't have a pocket hole jig, I'd rip down some 9.5 or 12.5mm plywood into the thickness I want and then glue and brad nail the pieces together, with a double thickness of plywood on the vertical braces between the horizontal pieces (so the audience side of the window is all in the same plane). Then, depending on how far the window is from the audience and how detailed you want it to be, you could add some molding pieces and other trim details.

As far as finishing, you could look at stapling some sheer fabric to the back side of the window, depending on the look you want. This thread has a couple of pictures of different materials you could look into using for that. I don't think you would want to use any perspex panes, as they would have some pretty bad glare from the stage lights. On the audience side of the window you could hang any curtains you want for stage dressing.
Thanks for the link and suggested timber Benjamin. Since posting I downloaded Scenic Construction for the Stage by Mark Tweed (UK) which has some useful info,and funnily enough a project on building a Georgian window! If using polycarbonate he suggests using a minimum thickness of 8-10mm so it appears flat under lights. Per my pic above their are curtains on the inside of the window only. Some sort of voile or silk fabric may work. Thanks
 
Thanks for the link and suggested timber Benjamin. Since posting I downloaded Scenic Construction for the Stage by Mark Tweed (UK) which has some useful info,and funnily enough a project on building a Georgian window! If using polycarbonate he suggests using a minimum thickness of 8-10mm so it appears flat under lights. Per my pic above their are curtains on the inside of the window only. Some sort of voile or silk fabric may work. Thanks
Also go to the big green shed starting with "B" and check the shelves for materials. 5.4m of Architrave is about $15-$20 and then also use the timber Ben mentioned. Depending on your frame (I use 70x35mm framing timber) make a hole in the wall 10-15mm larger in both directions so the window you make slides in and then add architrave to cover the gaps and make it look the part.
 
From stage distance, I wouldn't torture yourself over the amount of profile detail on the mullions.. Folks will see the line, not the perfectly routed detail in the line/divider. We also routinely just overlap thin wood at the cross, rather than making an actual joint.

Also thin foam board is really nice for detail pieces like curved transom pieces and decorative doo dads. We use a razor style blade with no teeth in the jig saw for cutting Foamula R or similar board. It takes latex and acrylic paints quite nicely, and is very dimensionally stable.

I also use that a lot now for trim pieces and Sills etc. Again.. cheap, dimensionally stable. You can rip down standard dimensions and for bigger baseboards etc, I've even shaved off the bull nose edge to preserve the curve and have built up moldings etc if they are big enough to see the detail.

Since I design some, build some, and light more... I'm a big "no glass" advocate. I've never had anyone say.. Great show.. but I was bothered the whole time that there was no glass in the window/door.

You do have to train the actors, especially on doors.. to use the knob or handle, and not "violate" the sacred glass space.. that the audience will not forgive.
 
Also go to the big green shed starting with "B" and check the shelves for materials. 5.4m of Architrave is about $15-$20 and then also use the timber Ben mentioned. Depending on your frame (I use 70x35mm framing timber) make a hole in the wall 10-15mm larger in both directions so the window you make slides in and then add architrave to cover the gaps and make it look the part.
I swear we share the same language but I could not make heads or tails of what this means :wall:. Is the Australian big box home center green? is 5.4 meters a commonly used length? It seems so specific. Is architrave an actual product you can buy, not just like an architectural concept? Add in your refusal to use freedom units and all I read is gibberish lol. I have nothing constructive to add to this thread, I'm glad you guys are making it work down there. @Andrew McMillan welcome to the booth. If you've got the time, read through the old threads and try to absorb by osmosis, lots of good info on here.
 
I swear we share the same language but I could not make heads or tails of what this means :wall:. Is the Australian big box home center green? is 5.4 meters a commonly used length? It seems so specific. Is architrave an actual product you can buy, not just like an architectural concept? Add in your refusal to use freedom units and all I read is gibberish lol. I have nothing constructive to add to this thread, I'm glad you guys are making it work down there. @Andrew McMillan welcome to the booth. If you've got the time, read through the old threads and try to absorb by osmosis, lots of good info on here.
Let me help translate for you.
Yes our big box hardware store is green and starts with B. 5.4m is a common length and it equates to 18ft. and architrave is the trims we put around our doors and windows. Skirting boards go along the base of the wall. I don't refuse to use "Freedom units" I don't know them so don't use them. We are metric here so that is what I know mostly and I have to try and convert your units to mine when reading posts here.
I do hope this reduces the divide between our great countries on our mission to world peace :)
Regards
Geoff (pronounced Jeff for all those in the USA)
 
So when flying Peter Pan, do you have to do special modification for the difference in the Coriolus effect? String the blocks back to front, instead of front to back?? that sort of thing :)
;)
 
Let me help translate for you.
Yes our big box hardware store is green and starts with B. 5.4m is a common length and it equates to 18ft. and architrave is the trims we put around our doors and windows. Skirting boards go along the base of the wall. I don't refuse to use "Freedom units" I don't know them so don't use them. We are metric here so that is what I know mostly and I have to try and convert your units to mine when reading posts here.
I do hope this reduces the divide between our great countries on our mission to world peace :)
Regards
Geoff (pronounced Jeff for all those in the USA)
Geoff = Jeff. If you were Welsh we'd be having real problems with pronunciation.
Toodleoo!
Ron Hebbard
 
So when flying Peter Pan, do you have to do special modification for the difference in the Coriolus effect? String the blocks back to front, instead of front to back?? that sort of thing :)
;)
Yeah something like that and our toilets swirl the other way too.. An interesting thing about measurements. There are 2 different nautical miles. 1 is the admiralty measured and the other on is the international NM. Guess who is the the only one to use the international NM. That is right you guessed it.... the USA. everyone else uses the other one. so how can it be international? Also the USA have international competitions that only teams from the USA enter. and you call us Aussies a bit strange.... Has your day been lightened and you smiled a little? Hope so.
Regards
El Jefe
 
Also go to the big green shed starting with "B" and check the shelves for materials. 5.4m of Architrave is about $15-$20 and then also use the timber Ben mentioned. Depending on your frame (I use 70x35mm framing timber) make a hole in the wall 10-15mm larger in both directions so the window you make slides in and then add architrave to cover the gaps and make it look the part.
I’m in Australia. I’m not sure what you mean by the big green shed. Bunnings, Mitre10 are our two main chains here for timber etc. Will see what they have. Thanks.
 

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