Starting from scratch

[marknb]

I am a member of a small church (100 seats) which is trying to incorporate conventional and LED lighting into our worship experience.
We are considering 5 to 6 ETC S4 fixtures (fullsize or jr) handled by two dimmer packs and up to 12 LED fixtures; a combination of RGBA pars and perhaps a few slim pars. At this time I don't see us using moving lights in the foreseeable future. There is no one on staff available full time to program and run the lights; all work will be done by volunteers. I am looking for your input regarding the type of lighting controller which is best suited for our situation. Someone has suggested the ETC smartfade 2496, but I am open to other devices as well as lighting software. We want to have equipment we can grow into, but since no one has experience with programming and the system will be manned by volunteers, it is very important to have equipment which is easy to use and intuitive. My optimal budget is around 2K, but I'm interested in learning the differences between controllers ranging up to 4K. Your help is very much appreciated.

 

[gcpsoundlight]

Etc controllers are very popular. Another good controller is an LSC Maxim.

 

[marknb]

Thank you gcpsoundlight. Does anyone have any opinions regarding grandma on pc, jands vista w/m1 fader wing software, Chamsys MagicQ? What about other consoles other than smartfade? We're all going to experience a huge learning curve since this will be our first attempt at controlling lights.

 

[Kelite]

Hey Mark, first off- welcome to the ControlBooth. Glad you're here!

I'm sure we'll hear lighting console preferences and other desk options, as the crowd here is pretty well-rounded. From the fixture side, you've chosen wisely to begin with S4 and/or S4 Jr fixtures, but I'm curious how much gear the 'optimal budget' will allow. Certainly used gear will get you more mileage for your dollar, and a vast selection of LEDs are available.

Looking forward to a little more info as you investigate your opportunities-

Once again- welcome to the ControlBooth!

 

[shiben]

Hey Mark, first off- welcome to the ControlBooth. Glad you're here!

I'm sure we'll hear lighting console preferences and other desk options, as the crowd here is pretty well-rounded. From the fixture side, you've chosen wisely to begin with S4 and/or S4 Jr fixtures, but I'm curious how much gear the 'optimal budget' will allow. Certainly used gear will get you more mileage for your dollar, and a vast selection of LEDs are available.

Looking forward to a little more info as you investigate your opportunities-

Once again- welcome to the ControlBooth!

Unless the optimal budget is for the controller...

 

[mozsey]

Hello there.
I've worked with the smartfade family, and I don't know how well it would work with the LED lighting. I would look at a controller that gives you a color picker along with it.

 

[iLightTheStage]

Thank you gcpsoundlight. Does anyone have any opinions regarding grandma on pc, jands vista w/m1 fader wing software, Chamsys MagicQ? What about other consoles other than smartfade? We're all going to experience a huge learning curve since this will be our first attempt at controlling lights.

The grandMA line is great but would be very difficult for a beginner to pick up since almost every button can have a custom action. Also, GrandMA onPC cannot output DMX (the language lighting "speaks" over cable) without a NSP or Wing (which has a NSP in it).

I personally still like the ETC Express or Expression boards since they just do the basics, but do it very well. They have been discontinued, and the smartfades and/or Ion boards were supposed to be their replacement, but I haven't worked with these. But you can find used Express boards still.

If you're looking for something that can grow over time, and something that an outside professional could easily come in and work with, I would recommend a Hog PC (you would need a dedicated computer running windows) using their DMX "widget."
USB DMX Widget - Wholehog III - Controllers - Products - High End Systems
Although I don't find Hog boards to be the most stable console (it's known to crash; it basically is running off of windows), they are affordable, expandable, and there isn't a HUGE learning curve once you have the basics down. You can get fader wings, and programming wings, and once you outgrow that, go with a full console.
You can also find some affordable used Hog boards out there. Since you don't have any moving lights yet, there isn't too much concern for them being out-dated. And there is PLENTY of info online about using them.

Hope that helps. It's just my $0.02

 

[shiben]

The grandMA line is great but would be very difficult for a beginner to pick up since almost every button can have a custom action. Also, GrandMA onPC cannot output DMX (the language lighting "speaks" over cable) without a NSP or Wing (which has a NSP in it).

I personally still like the ETC Express or Expression boards since they just do the basics, but do it very well. They have been discontinued, and the smartfades and/or Ion boards were supposed to be their replacement, but I haven't worked with these. But you can find used Express boards still.

If you're looking for something that can grow over time, and something that an outside professional could easily come in and work with, I would recommend a Hog PC (you would need a dedicated computer running windows) using their DMX "widget."
USB DMX Widget - Wholehog III - Controllers - Products - High End Systems
Although I don't find Hog boards to be the most stable console (it's known to crash; it basically is running off of windows), they are affordable, expandable, and there isn't a HUGE learning curve once you have the basics down. You can get fader wings, and programming wings, and once you outgrow that, go with a full console.
You can also find some affordable used Hog boards out there. Since you don't have any moving lights yet, there isn't too much concern for them being out-dated. And there is PLENTY of info online about using them.

Hope that helps. It's just my $0.02

See, I would say if you have the option get an Element/Ion/Eos over a Hog, and if you are going to do a computer controlled solution, take a look at dropping 4 grand on a ChamSys system with a wing of some sort... I personally feel that a free program and dropping money on a wing is a better use of money than getting a smartfade console, if you want to upgrade your wing, you just buy the next level up or another one. If you want to upgrade your smartfade, you buy a new console? I think the math is pretty straightforward.

 

[Pie4Weebl]

If you are going to do a computer controlled solution, take a look at dropping 4 grand on a ChamSys system with a wing of some sort../

Like the one listed in the classifieds

Personally I feel a smartfade ML is the way to go, simple console with a lot of punch.

 

[LXPlot]

USB DMX Widget - Wholehog III - Controllers - Products - High End Systems
Although I don't find Hog boards to be the most stable console (it's known to crash; it basically is running off of windows), they are affordable, expandable, and there isn't a HUGE learning curve once you have the basics down. You can get fader wings, and programming wings, and once you outgrow that, go with a full console.
You can also find some affordable used Hog boards out there. Since you don't have any moving lights yet, there isn't too much concern for them being out-dated. And there is PLENTY of info online about using them.

Hope that helps. It's just my $0.02

The wing is pretty expensive, has a decent learning curve especially for beginners, and Hog 3 is only recently stable enough. Hog3PC does need to be on a Windows computer, which I find odd as the actual WholeHog Operating System is based upon a version of Linux.

Chamsys will run on a Linux machine, and it functions approximately the same way. It has a slightly worse learning curve, probably bad enough that it isn't ideal for a church run by volunteers. The wing is cheaper as well, and the pro dongle (you don't want the 16$ dongle for this) is only a 100$, so its a decent choice economically.

 

[iLightTheStage]

The wing is pretty expensive, has a decent learning curve especially for beginners, and Hog 3 is only recently stable enough. Hog3PC does need to be on a Windows computer, which I find odd as the actual WholeHog Operating System is based upon a version of Linux.

Chamsys will run on a Linux machine, and it functions approximately the same way. It has a slightly worse learning curve, probably bad enough that it isn't ideal for a church run by volunteers. The wing is cheaper as well, and the pro dongle (you don't want the 16$ dongle for this) is only a 100$, so its a decent choice economically.

To clarify: I meant get the wings later, if they grow to that point. The setup they have sounds like it could all be run off the computer with the widget attached. And, if memory serves me right, the widget is only like $500, and the software is free.

The reason I suggest that is because if someone starts technical work at this church, they would likely find Hogs in other places, so knowing how to program it could be helpful to them.
Their setup could probably all run off of a $50 American DJ "controller", but I would NEVER suggest it. [For any ladies present, please excuse my language. I should really refrain from ever saying that "ADJ" word.]

 

[MarshallPope]

Personally, I really like Jands Vista, and think it could be well-suited for your application. It has more power than you likely really need at the moment, but it is easy to pick up and, at least in my opinion, is much more intuitive and easily picked up.

 

[marknb]

Hey Mark, first off- welcome to the ControlBooth. Glad you're here!

I'm sure we'll hear lighting console preferences and other desk options, as the crowd here is pretty well-rounded. From the fixture side, you've chosen wisely to begin with S4 and/or S4 Jr fixtures, but I'm curious how much gear the 'optimal budget' will allow. Certainly used gear will get you more mileage for your dollar, and a vast selection of LEDs are available.

Looking forward to a little more info as you investigate your opportunities-

Once again- welcome to the ControlBooth!

Thanks to everyone for your help. The dollar amount I referred to ($2K - $4K) was for controller only. With that said, I should point out nothing, not even the the fixtures have yet been acquired. I feel as though I should learn as much as possible about this technology to make an informed and wise decision. Naturally, it's important to be a good steward of the church funds.
Please keep the information flowing.

Thank you,
Mark