Conventional Fixtures Strand lens tubes

[artdeco18]

I have a bunch of STRAND 2209 and 2212 LEKOs... we bought them used from a major lighting company in the area for use outside doing summer theatre so we were using them primarily for general illumination of the acting areas. We were needing them for an indoor venue we have started using and thought it would be a good idea to clean and inspect them first.

What we discovered was that the major lighting company didn't match lens tubes and barrels when they sold them to me and all but 3 have 6x16 lens tubes... The 6x12s aren't a major loss because I have lots of them, but I'd like to try to salvage the 6x9s....

Does anyone know if there is any place they might be available? Otherwise we are going to be stuck... with a large parts inventory

 

[Les]

Do you need the tubes as well, or just the lenses? I've found that the Altman 360Q's 6x9 lenses are interchangeable between some Strand Lekos.

 

[artdeco18]

I'm not sure how these things work to be truthful... whether it's the lenses that are different or their placement in the tubes. If it's simply a matter of changing out the lenses... that is easy enough... but before I spend money on that, it would be nice to know that they will work...

Oddly enough I picked up a bunch of instruments recently that included some LEKOs and they had the 6x16 tubes in them as well...

I've asked a number of techs but nobody seems to have an answer that is yes or no. I suspect it's because they all work in buildings that can afford source 4s and have forgotten.

they are the 1970s version with the round yoke.

 

[Les]

Generally, there are some differences between the lenses themselves as well as their placement within the tubes. On Altman 360Q's, the barrel of the light is longer, placing the lenses further from the gate. So a 6x9 will have two thick lenses closer to the gate, while a 6x12 will have two thinner lenses further from the gate. Beyond those two beam spreads, it's a real guess on my part since Strand used huge 8" stepped lenses and the like. By searching eBay (keyword: altman light) you can probably find some retired lens tubes for cheap (cheap enough that if it doesn't work, you're only out $10-20).

I do know for a fact that I had an old 6x9 Strand Century (gray unit with the rounded cast aluminum yoke) and its lenses worked well in an Altman 6x9 that I wanted to save.

 

[ship]

I have a #2209 in collection c.1988. PM me and we can go further in physical measurements and comparisons to Altman parts conversions or possible modifications say to the lens tube if different. Sorry, can't help with the #2212 other than if say the lens tube on a Altman 6x9 is the same length as Strand, and all else is similar, only than could one infer that the Strand 6x12 would have the same proportions as the Altman that I have.

Sort of the:
a=b
c=X
type of thing as possible assuming nobody else has a #2212 about. Not that old, Believe I was using them in college and found them good quality.

Lens tube I think you mean what I call a Lens train. The top hat like part it slides within a barrel or tube so further defining might be needed for all. On Altman at least, the lens trains are the exact same and interchangable once you change the lenses. The barrel is rougly changing in length from about 6" to 9" to 12" for each size. (Roughly speaking in length.) Assuming this is similar in Strand to Altman, it would only be required to cut down the 6x16 barrel from the castle top notched side to match the correct length. And swap out the lenses - a 6x9 lens should roughly measure 15/16" if convex side is down on a table top. (That's about +/- 3/16" dependant on brand and age.) As long as the two lenses have about the same height, you will most likely never know the difference between a fixture with 7/8" thick verses 1.1/8" thick lenses if all else is the same. Just a slight difference in beam spread. Where you might notice it is if you had the two above lenses in the same lens train.

Again, I have a #2209, PM me if you want specific measurements or a comparision with an Altman 6x9 for specific parts and measurement comparisons.

P.S. These are PC lenses and the fixture is black. Century, Century/Strand and Strand lenses are PC not stepped; and they are also 6" not 5.3/4" etc Kliegl has tried at times in also stepping them. (I have I think all generations of this Leko brand going back to c.1938 2nd generation Leko from them thru 1998.) This 6" PC lens does make it easier to swap brand to brand on a 6x9. Who knows, given L&E is going out of business, might get replacement lenses cheap thru them.

 

[ship]

I'm not sure how these things work to be truthful... whether it's the lenses that are different or their placement in the tubes. If it's simply a matter of changing out the lenses... that is easy enough... but before I spend money on that, it would be nice to know that they will work...

Oddly enough I picked up a bunch of instruments recently that included some LEKOs and they had the 6x16 tubes in them as well...

I've asked a number of techs but nobody seems to have an answer that is yes or no. I suspect it's because they all work in buildings that can afford source 4s and have forgotten.

they are the 1970s version with the round yoke.

That's where measuring the lens tube and lens train, gap between lenses, height of lenses, lens train length etc. comes in by way of comparison of Altman to Strand, and indeed if you have some you are fairly certain are Strand 6x9 in lens train/tube, just doing all of this yourself in figuring out what's 6x16 verses 6x12 and 6x9 in all parts just takes measuring. This will let you come up with a list on your own which allows you to modify parts or buy what you need.

Question of if there is a different gap between lenses in a lens train between say a 6x16 and 6x9... possible but not likely if that answers your question. You will more likely find that on zoom or variable beam angle fixtures where you adjust the gap between the lenses manually. Possible, yes, but not very likely - I have seen some half spreader plates in use before but mostly in use on odd old gear and this isn't what I would call old. Hope it helps. If there is more than one slot available (Non S-4) in the lens train so as to lock in lenses, or they have different spreaders, than be concerned. I would suspect the same parts however.

 

[derekleffew]

...they are the 1970s version with the round yoke.

Like this one?

The 2209, 2212, and [-]2216[/-] [see post#14 below] are identical except for the lenses, and the identifying label on the lens tube. Unlike say the 360Q which used different length barrels, the Strand-Century black Lekolites (and the gray, radial versions that immediately preceded 23x1) all have the same barrel, and the sliding dog on the top of the lens tube allows for the range of lenses.

Hint: There are four little rubber pieces per lens that you'll either lose or they will be so brittle you'll want to replace them. Look in the weatherstripping dept. of your local home center for something with a similar C-channel profile that you can cut into the 1/2" lengths.

 

[artdeco18]

yes... like the one in the first picture.

I must have brain flatulence though because I have 6x9, 6x12 and 6x16 instruments and the easiest way to find out is to disassemble them and measure. That is next step

thanks

 

[derekleffew]

... and the easiest way to find out is to disassemble them and measure. ...

No, the easiest way is to hang three units equidistant from a perpendicular surface, and keep swapping out lens tube s until you get three different sized pools. Then use these "controls" to compare the others. While the simple answer to finding a lens' focal length is to take it outside on a sunny day (thus near-parallel rays entering the lens), and focus it onto the pavement as if burning insects, then measure the distance, it's probably unnecessary. A 6x9 lens is ~1.5" at its thickest, 6x12 is ~1", and 6x16 ~0.5-0.75".*

When the lamp's bench focus is set to cosine (flat) distribution, and lens train is set to sharp edge:
The field diameter MF for a 2216 is 0.40. At a throw distance of 20', you should have about an 8' diameter pool.
For a 2212, MF is 0.55. At 20', pool is 11'. http://www.strandarchive.co.uk/lanterns/documents/lekolite_2212_13_1982.pdf
2209, MF is 0.73. At 20', pool is 14.6'.
Although you don't have any, the following is included for completeness.
2204 (2x 4½x6½ lenses), MF is 1.27. At 20', pool is 25.4'.

Note: This won't work if you suspect different lenses in the same tube, which shouldn't happen, but it's possible you may have a 6x10½ (6x9+6x12) or 6x14 (6x12+6x16). A 6x12½ (6x9+6x16) is pretty obvious, and hopefully unlikely, however.

*I'll do anything I can to avoid taking lens tubes apart. But if you insist, arm yourself with a 50/50 mix of isopropyl alcohol and distilled water in a spray bottle, and coffee filters, to clean the lenses while they're apart.

BTW, we hope you're not using FEL 1000W lamps in these. Although the fixture was designed for FEL/EHG/EHD, today we have superior filament geometries available. The 750W GLD or GLE, and the 575W GLA or GLC, are much kinder to shutters, gobos, and color, at not too much of a sacrifice in intensity. See the thread http://www.controlbooth.com/forums/lighting-electrics/27887-ehg-replacment-ehd-gla-glh.html .
.

 

[artdeco18]

No, the easiest way is to hang three units equidistant from a perpendicular surface, and keep swapping out lens tube s until you get three different sized pools. Then use these "controls" to compare the others. While the simple answer to finding a lens' focal length is to take it outside on a sunny day (thus near-parallel rays entering the lens), and focus it onto the pavement as if burning insects, then measure the distance, it's probably unnecessary. A 6x9 lens is ~1.5" at its thickest, 6x12 is ~1", and 6x16 ~0.5-0.75".*

When the lamp's bench focus is set to cosine (flat) distribution, and lens train is set to sharp edge:
The field diameter MF for a 2216 is 0.40. At a throw distance of 20', you should have about an 8' diameter pool.
For a 2212, MF is 0.55. At 20', pool is 11'. http://www.strandarchive.co.uk/lanterns/documents/lekolite_2212_13_1982.pdf
2209, MF is 0.73. At 20', pool is 14.6'.
Although you don't have any, the following is included for completeness.
2204 (2x 4½x6½ lenses), MF is 1.27. At 20', pool is 25.4'.

Note: This won't work if you suspect different lenses in the same tube, which shouldn't happen, but it's possible you may have a 6x10½ (6x9+6x12) or 6x14 (6x12+6x16). A 6x12½ (6x9+6x16) is pretty obvious, and hopefully unlikely, however.

*I'll do anything I can to avoid taking lens tubes apart. But if you insist, arm yourself with a 50/50 mix of isopropyl alcohol and distilled water in a spray bottle, and coffee filters, to clean the lenses while they're apart.

BTW, we hope you're not using FEL 1000W lamps in these. Although the fixture was designed for FEL/EHG/EHD, today we have superior filament geometries available. The 750W GLD or GLE, and the 575W GLA or GLC, are much kinder to shutters, gobos, and color, at not too much of a sacrifice in intensity. See the thread http://www.controlbooth.com/forums/lighting-electrics/27887-ehg-replacment-ehd-gla-glh.html .
.

Man I'm old and the math gives me a headache. But from what I know now the barrels are different and I have samples now so have measured... that the lens tubes are all the same but are labeled according to the lenses inside and that the lenses can be determined by their thickness. So now I can compile a don't forget sheet. and can put them back together... Well on my way to solving this.

The reason we took them apart was specifically to clean them... (yes alcohol and distilled water). It's actually really easy because it's in two pieces held together by 4 screws. The newer model looks to be a nightmare of parts and things to get lost. Don't know why companies try to fix things that work just fine... but they do...

We relamped everything to 575 watts already... We couldn't find used fresnels so have been getting by with elation optipars (pretend S4s)... but they use the same lamp as the LEKOS so we only have to stock one lamp. We are using FLK which was what was recommended... but I'll have a look at the thread on bulb replacement.

 

[venuetech]

Hint: There are four little rubber pieces per lens that you'll either lose or they will be so brittle you'll want to replace them.

what you want is a heat resistant silicone rubber all sorts of places to find this, but you could just buy a silicone square bake pan and cut it up as needed. the corners will provide a profile close to what you need.

 

[thirdoctive]

The 6x16's have a longer sleeve than the 9's and 12's. If you go to this link (Strand Archive - Leko Range ) there is a break out of the fixtures. Hope this helps you.

 

[Les]

The 6x16's have a longer sleeve than the 9's and 12's. If you go to this link (Strand Archive - Leko Range ) there is a break out of the fixtures. Hope this helps you.

I think their Leko 26 and Leko 40 images may be reversed.

 

[derekleffew]

The 6x16's have a longer sleeve than the 9's and 12's. ...

By Jove, you're right! I guess I never had 6x16 s.
From shutters to front edge of sleeve (barrel):
~6" for 2204, 2209, 2212
~7.25" for 2216.

I think their Leko 26 and Leko 40 images may be reversed.

Yes and no. No, because the two fixtures are identical except for the lenses. Yes, if the pictures are intended to depict the units at sharp focus, the one with the lens tube extended farther should be the 6x12 (26°).

-----

FWIW, it's because of this line of fixtures that I first started, in the early 1980s, painting the colorframe clips to indicate what the lens tube was. See http://www.controlbooth.com/forums/lighting-electrics/27105-labelling-s4s.html .
.

 

[artdeco18]

ok... I thought I posted this but obviously didn't... I got out my tape measure... and measured the barrels of the instruments I have. They are 11.25, 10.25, 8.75, 7.75, 6.25... So three different instruments with 5 different barrel lengths... The reason I thought the lens tubes were different was that the lens tube won't adjust flush on the instruments with the 6.25 barrel... I assumed those were 6x9s which was why I thought the lens tube may have been different.

Interestingly enough one of the short barrels has an iris in it...

 

[Les]

Interestingly enough one of the short barrels has an iris in it...

Ah, that's a nice extra. It was probably offered as an option (similar to how one can order a 360Q with a factory installed iris). Surprisingly, the 360Q (and I would imagine, the Strand fixtures discussed here) work very well with an iris; just be sure that when you iris down to push those shutters in until they interfere with the beam, and then back out a bit. That really helps save the iris so that the [cheap] shutters can take the majority of the heat from the beam.

 

[artdeco18]

Strand LEKO barrel lenghts

This is a follow up to my question regarding LEKO lens tubes. My next issue is with barrel lengths. These are the 1970s version of the instrument with the round yoke and two piece lens tube. By barrel I am referring to the cylinder that screws onto the body of the instrument and into which the lens tube fits. Strand made 6x9, 6x12 and 6x16 instruments. I have a collection of mixmatched instruments and assumed that I could identify them by their different sizes. Unfortunately, such is not the case.

What my tape measure tells me is that I have barrels that are 11.25", 10.25", 8.75", 7.75" and 6.25". They don't seem to have been altered so I am at a loss to understand the differences. Particularly confusing are the ones with the 6.25" barrels because they are too short to permit the lens tube to adjust flush.

Can anyone explain what this is about?

More important, does anyone know what the length of a barrel for 6x9 should be? I have a ton of 6x12s but need 6x9s and the plan is to cut down the barrels and install 6x9 lenses.

 

[venuetech]

Re: Strand LEKO barrel lenghts

by 1970's version do you mean Axial or Radial?

The earlier Radial version has a "chimney" with a medium pre-focus base lamp. the lamp sort of enters into the top of the reflector. (we called these Steam Leko's)

The Axial has a lamp housing centered to the rear of the reflector. the lamp would have a medium bi-pin base.

the round yoke and 2pc barrel was common to both versions




photos?

 

[artdeco18]

Re: Strand LEKO barrel lenghts

It's the 2100 series

 

[hatstrand]

Lekobird here............... the Axial Leko was manufactured from 1979 to about 1982. Series numbers 2204 thru 2124. the "short" sleeve accomodated the 2204, 2209, 2212, and the 2213 (w/iris). the medium sleeve was for the 2216 and 2217 (w/iris), and the lonnnnnng sleeve was for a single 6 x 12 lens, the 2112 or 2111 (w/iris).

there were two sleeves that had Exterior slides on them for the BIG guys. One 8 x 13 pc lens 2113 and one 10 x 23 lens 2123.

if i can just figure out how to insert the scanned file "A Guide to your New Strand Lighting Lekolite Spotlight"... that has all the pictures.....