Strand MX + Scrollers

DHSLXOP

Active Member
Response to the patching: Yes, you could patch all of the reds to one fader, all of the blues to one fader, and all of the ambers to one fader.
Response to the gelling LED's question: since the RGB LED pars and the white LED pars are the same price, you could get the ones with gel holders, and have 5 RGB LED pars with bastard amber gels and 5 RGB LED pars without. This would basically make all of the colors in one can warmer, so that you could have a warm and a cool can in each of 4 or 5 areas across the stage. That'd be a really good idea, IMO.
The only problem with this second part, though, is that I don't have enough control on the MX to be able to control RGB LED pars...:(
 

DHSLXOP

Active Member
Here is a link to a more indepth review
http://srforums.prosoundweb.com/index.php/t/19309/0/
Note they slightly wider beam at 10 feet. also currently if you want all white you probably want to look at A dj for those, and IMO the WEDIEMARK ones for the colors.
Sharyn

Thankyou for the site, its very helpful.
Again though, I'd still be struggling for channels since each Led Parcan takes 4 channels to run, and I don't really have that capability on my board.

Does anyone know of any silent scrollers that are out there? Could that be an alternative at all?
 

soundlight

Well-Known Member
All scrollers require motors and fans, both of which make noise. And the gel can also get caught in an air current (this happened in our theater and we tried for five minutes to find where the sound was coming from before looking up to first beam, where the gel in a scroller on an S4 zoom on first beam was making quite a racket.
 

DHSLXOP

Active Member
Oh ok. So basically my best options would be to get a bigger board (with more channels) and then get LED Par cans or keep the same board and deal with the noise of scrollers. Am i correct in saying this?
 

soundlight

Well-Known Member
Unless someone comes up with the magic answer, then I'd say yes. (Don't get me wrong, I'd be glad for the magic answer!)

I'd go with LED's and Smartfade, if I were you, but that's just personal preference. Smartfade 2496, 5 RGB LED pars, and 5 White LED Pars with the bastard amber gels in them. Comes out to right around $3K.
 

DHSLXOP

Active Member
Unless someone comes up with the magic answer, then I'd say yes. (Don't get me wrong, I'd be glad for the magic answer!)
I'd go with LED's and Smartfade, if I were you, but that's just personal preference. Smartfade 2496, 5 RGB LED pars, and 5 White LED Pars with the bastard amber gels in them. Comes out to right around $3K.


Thanks so much for your help. If I did this, how would I then go about focusing them?

Edit: Also, would it be better to just get standard par 64s and then put the bastard amber gels in those...that way I don't have to spend the additional money on LED lights?
 
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soundlight

Well-Known Member
You could set up five frontlight wash areas across the stage: SL, CSL, C, CSR, SR. One RGB and one amber par for each. You would focus them straight on (instead of coming in from a side).

About the standard par cans: I would have three things against them.
1) You will have different qualities of light, because one will be LED and one will be standard incandescent.
2) You will have to hook the standard PAR's up to dimmers.
3) You will have to replace PAR bulbs. LED's will last for much longer than PAR bulbs.

EDIT: Also, don't forget to add a DMX splitter to your budget, get the Doug Fleenor 3-output model, and Premier Lighting has a good price on that as well.
 
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DHSLXOP

Active Member
You could set up five frontlight wash areas across the stage: SL, CSL, C, CSR, SR. One RGB and one amber par for each. You would focus them straight on (instead of coming in from a side).
About the standard par cans: I would have three things against them.
1) You will have different qualities of light, because one will be LED and one will be standard incandescent.
2) You will have to hook the standard PAR's up to dimmers.
3) You will have to replace PAR bulbs. LED's will last for much longer than PAR bulbs.
EDIT: Also, don't forget to add a DMX splitter to your budget, get the Doug Fleenor 3-output model, and Premier Lighting has a good price on that as well.


Thanks for the great suggestion and using those 3 facts, I've decided I'd rather not use them.
What brand of LED's should I be looking at?
 

soundlight

Well-Known Member
If you can get them go with Sharyn's suggestion for the RGB mixers, especially because of the review that they got on that other forum. For white cans, check the American DJ all-white can, it has a gel frame, and you should be able to pop an amber gel in there.

If you'd like, I can make a mock-up budget that has the controller, cans, cables, splitter, gels, etc. and email it to you in excel format. Being a college student, I don't "promote my own company", so I'll just be sending you the best prices that I can find. Just PM me your email if you'd like a budget mock-up.
 

DHSLXOP

Active Member
If you can get them go with Sharyn's suggestion for the RGB mixers, especially because of the review that they got on that other forum. For white cans, check the American DJ all-white can, it has a gel frame, and you should be able to pop an amber gel in there.
If you'd like, I can make a mock-up budget that has the controller, cans, cables, splitter, gels, etc. and email it to you in excel format. Being a college student, I don't "promote my own company", so I'll just be sending you the best prices that I can find. Just PM me your email if you'd like a budget mock-up.
That would be great. Thanks so much! I'll PM you my email. (if I can figure out how to do it)

Edit: I figured it out
 
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All scrollers require motors and fans, both of which make noise. And the gel can also get caught in an air current (this happened in our theater and we tried for five minutes to find where the sound was coming from before looking up to first beam, where the gel in a scroller on an S4 zoom on first beam was making quite a racket.

Apollo scrollers set on slow fan and slow scroll are nearly silent.
 

SHARYNF

Well-Known Member
the bigger issue is the cost, the fact that you need a dimmer, and that you need to scroll to get to the color you want. By the time you addin all the cost most people simply go with multiple pars, and gel them to suit
on leko it is another matter, since currently the color changers that fit into the source 4 are around 1500 dollars each

Sharyn
 

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the bigger issue is the cost, the fact that you need a dimmer, and that you need to scroll to get to the color you want. By the time you addin all the cost most people simply go with multiple pars, and gel them to suit
on leko it is another matter, since currently the color changers that fit into the source 4 are around 1500 dollars each
Sharyn

Scrolls are included (Apollo has two to choose from). Also, they already have the dimmers from they way it sounds. Also, the Apollo scrollers with the universal mounting plate can mount on whatever fixture you buy, including a par64, and they run for around 380 bux. You will still have to buy cable and a power supply, but you can pick up a few scrollers for rather cheap, and they are very high quality. If you do want a custom scroll made, they run around 30 bux a piece, and you are getting true color that will match anything that you put in you conventionals.
 

SHARYNF

Well-Known Member
Obviously there are different approaches and preferences. Personally I think scrollers make sense for expensive instruments when the cost for multiples gel'd to what you need is not practical. Again personally I don't think scrollers make sense on par's, but again that is just opinion. Apollo makes a great product, no question, but on e leko sure, on a fresnel maybe, on a par, not so certain.

The other issue here is small space, first electric is 10 feet stage is 20 feet deep, so I'd say you are going to want 4-6 pars, I think 2 would be hard to get an even wash with.
Sharyn
 

DHSLXOP

Active Member
Obviously there are different approaches and preferences. Personally I think scrollers make sense for expensive instruments when the cost for multiples gel'd to what you need is not practical. Again personally I don't think scrollers make sense on par's, but again that is just opinion. Apollo makes a great product, no question, but on e leko sure, on a fresnel maybe, on a par, not so certain.
The other issue here is small space, first electric is 10 feet stage is 20 feet deep, so I'd say you are going to want 4-6 pars, I think 2 would be hard to get an even wash with.
Sharyn

Just wondering-why do you not think scrollers make sense on a par? And what would they be better off going on, in your opinion?
 

soundlight

Well-Known Member
I think that scrollers work well on PAR's, as long as they are either shorties, scroller supporters, or S4 pars. We use scrollers on S4 pars for every dance concert that we do.
 

SHARYNF

Well-Known Member
My reasons in addition to the technical ones that have been outlined, is cost, typically you don't use more than 4 or so different gels in a production, a so the cost of the scroller vs the cost of simply adding additional pars tends to favor the additional pars. In a lot of pro productions the whole reason for pars was minimal cost, giving you the option for large quantities. Concerts etc you tend to just have loads of truss sections all pre loaded and ready to go.

Personally as I said, I tend to use scrollers for an instrument in an out of the way place, where I have a limited number of the instrument so I don't have the option to gel multiples or the instrument is simply expensive and so the option of adding multiples is not an option, or a situation where space limitations restricts it, or there simply are not enought dimmer channels.

My opinion is that LED's are likely to make major inroads in the whole par section, where basically you have an inexpensive instrument, don't need dimmer channels, etc.

Sharyn
 

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