Strand Vision.Net

[Ethan Martinez]

Hello world.... Calling on all Vision.Net specialists!
We are looking to upgrade a dated architectural system in an auditorium. We currently have 3 strand CD80 racks as well as a Strand Architectural system that is beginning to fail. We really would like to avoid replacing the the entire dimmer racks as well as the brain module in the racks. We were quoted by several companies to replace the system, but they said the only way to do so was to upgrade the brain in the rack. We unfortunately do not have the budget to do so, and all those who quoted would not quote us unless we agreed to replace the dimmer rack brain module. Maybe if you can make a more budget friendly suggestion we are open to new and creative ideas... Any help would be appreciated! Pictures attached to link at the bottom.

Does the CD80 Listen directly to DMX or is there a conversion BOX somewhere that would convert DMX to "Strand Talk"?
If there is a conversion box somewhere, would it work with a newer architectural system or would the conversion box need to be replaced too?

Info about the current install...

We have 3 racks 2 are backstage and control stage lights, one is in a mechanical room in the back of the house for house lighting. You will notice in the pictures that the rack for the house lights has an new module that was installed around five years ago. All racks are controllable via DMX and all are controllable via the architectural system. We have 2 panels that have LCD screens with 8 programmable scenes one in the booth and one at the Stage managers rack. Along with those 2 panels, we have 4 single button push stations scattered around the auditorium (all of which work).

I am also very handy and can usually troubleshoot/install almost anything.

Click link to see pics of the install...

https://1drv.ms/f/s!Ar0AcfDr9rfsrwhUiMwDF2e-WB_E

 

[Calc]

Those are CD80 SV's. The SV is important, as they're a generation newer than the original CD80's.

From my understanding, brains will go long before individual packs start failing, so brain replacement makes sense. The first of ours went bad after 10 years (three more went bad over the next three years). I'm at the point now that they're likely to start failing again, so I've began shopping around for options as well.

Did any of your vendors go the Johnson Controls route? They make a replacement brain that's significantly cheaper than the Strand retrofit kits.

 

[Ethan Martinez]

I was told that one of the brains is a Johnston Controls model... but if you look at the front of it, it has Strand logos all over it. Also, our racks are a little over 15 years old with the original brains except for one... And I would normally say to replace the brains, but we are at a public institution and when you get money for something it is because that thing is dead.... So, long story short we don't have the budget to replace the brains and will not get that money until the facility is considered "inoperable."

 

[RonHebbard]

Hello world.... Calling on all Vision.Net specialists!
We are looking to upgrade a dated architectural system in an auditorium. We currently have 3 strand CD80 racks as well as a Strand Architectural system that is beginning to fail. We really would like to avoid replacing the the entire dimmer racks as well as the brain module in the racks. We were quoted by several companies to replace the system, but they said the only way to do so was to upgrade the brain in the rack. We unfortunately do not have the budget to do so, and all those who quoted would not quote us unless we agreed to replace the dimmer rack brain module. Maybe if you can make a more budget friendly suggestion we are open to new and creative ideas... Any help would be appreciated! Pictures attached to link at the bottom.

Does the CD80 Listen directly to DMX or is there a conversion BOX somewhere that would convert DMX to "Strand Talk"?
If there is a conversion box somewhere, would it work with a newer architectural system or would the conversion box need to be replaced too?

Info about the current install...

We have 3 racks 2 are backstage and control stage lights, one is in a mechanical room in the back of the house for house lighting. You will notice in the pictures that the rack for the house lights has an new module that was installed around five years ago. All racks are controllable via DMX and all are controllable via the architectural system. We have 2 panels that have LCD screens with 8 programmable scenes one in the booth and one at the Stage managers rack. Along with those 2 panels, we have 4 single button push stations scattered around the auditorium (all of which work).

I am also very handy and can usually troubleshoot/install almost anything.

Click link to see pics of the install...

https://1drv.ms/f/s!Ar0AcfDr9rfsrwhUiMwDF2e-WB_E

@Ethan Martinez You MAY want to look over Shaun Johnson's Johnson System's Site NOT to be confused with Johnson Controls. You will likely be able to re-utilize your dimmer racks and dimmers but most likely will need to replace the control cages in all of your racks plus your architectural stations. The last time I checked, the Strand architectural stations were no longer being supported by anyone. Shaun Johnson builds Strand gear better than Strand built it themselves. Shaun Johnson offers new control cages for the various flavors of CD80 racks that are basically plug and play so far as electrical, mechanical and cooling compatibility goes.
ETC can also marry their architectural stations to your Strand Racks via Johnson's upgraded rack electronics.
Toodleoo!
Ron Hebbard.

Hello world.... Calling on all Vision.Net specialists!
We are looking to upgrade a dated architectural system in an auditorium. We currently have 3 strand CD80 racks as well as a Strand Architectural system that is beginning to fail. We really would like to avoid replacing the the entire dimmer racks as well as the brain module in the racks. We were quoted by several companies to replace the system, but they said the only way to do so was to upgrade the brain in the rack. We unfortunately do not have the budget to do so, and all those who quoted would not quote us unless we agreed to replace the dimmer rack brain module. Maybe if you can make a more budget friendly suggestion we are open to new and creative ideas... Any help would be appreciated! Pictures attached to link at the bottom.

Does the CD80 Listen directly to DMX or is there a conversion BOX somewhere that would convert DMX to "Strand Talk"?
If there is a conversion box somewhere, would it work with a newer architectural system or would the conversion box need to be replaced too?

Info about the current install...

We have 3 racks 2 are backstage and control stage lights, one is in a mechanical room in the back of the house for house lighting. You will notice in the pictures that the rack for the house lights has an new module that was installed around five years ago. All racks are controllable via DMX and all are controllable via the architectural system. We have 2 panels that have LCD screens with 8 programmable scenes one in the booth and one at the Stage managers rack. Along with those 2 panels, we have 4 single button push stations scattered around the auditorium (all of which work).

I am also very handy and can usually troubleshoot/install almost anything.

Click link to see pics of the install...

https://1drv.ms/f/s!Ar0AcfDr9rfsrwhUiMwDF2e-WB_E

Hello world.... Calling on all Vision.Net specialists!
We are looking to upgrade a dated architectural system in an auditorium. We currently have 3 strand CD80 racks as well as a Strand Architectural system that is beginning to fail. We really would like to avoid replacing the the entire dimmer racks as well as the brain module in the racks. We were quoted by several companies to replace the system, but they said the only way to do so was to upgrade the brain in the rack. We unfortunately do not have the budget to do so, and all those who quoted would not quote us unless we agreed to replace the dimmer rack brain module. Maybe if you can make a more budget friendly suggestion we are open to new and creative ideas... Any help would be appreciated! Pictures attached to link at the bottom.

Does the CD80 Listen directly to DMX or is there a conversion BOX somewhere that would convert DMX to "Strand Talk"?
If there is a conversion box somewhere, would it work with a newer architectural system or would the conversion box need to be replaced too?

Info about the current install...

We have 3 racks 2 are backstage and control stage lights, one is in a mechanical room in the back of the house for house lighting. You will notice in the pictures that the rack for the house lights has an new module that was installed around five years ago. All racks are controllable via DMX and all are controllable via the architectural system. We have 2 panels that have LCD screens with 8 programmable scenes one in the booth and one at the Stage managers rack. Along with those 2 panels, we have 4 single button push stations scattered around the auditorium (all of which work).

I am also very handy and can usually troubleshoot/install almost anything.

Click link to see pics of the install...

https://1drv.ms/f/s!Ar0AcfDr9rfsrwhUiMwDF2e-WB_E

 

[Ethan Martinez]

All great suggestion, I really appreciate all the info. And the Full cage replacements may be a great option down the road...
This leads to a new question... Do the original cd80 supervisor cards listen to DMX or AMX or does it listen to some kind of "Strand language"? Or is this something that can vary from instillation to instillation?

 

[RonHebbard]

All great suggestion, I really appreciate all the info. And the Full cage replacements may be a great option down the road...
This leads to a new question... Do the original cd80 supervisor cards listen to DMX or AMX or does it listen to some kind of "Strand language"? Or is this something that can vary from instillation to instillation?

@Ethan Martinez To my knowledge; CD80 racks spoke AMX192, CD80AE [Advanced Electronics] spoke AMX 192 and / or DMX512A. The first CD80AE rack in my area danced to a Strand Vision Net system 24 / 7 / 365 until you woke up either of the two control boards. If you fired up the original mid 1970's Strand Mini Palette, it shifted to AMX-192 for as long as it was receiving AMX and then reverted to Vision Net. If, instead, you booted up the ETC Express, the CD80AE recognized the DMX512A on its DMX terminals and would automatically shift into DMX mode so long as the Express was driving. If / when there was neither AMX nor DMX present, the CD80AE would automatically revert back to Vision Net until the following weeks service.
As I've previously stated earlier in this thread, I don't believe anything / anybody's still supporting Strand's Vision Net architectural stations whatsoever. I believe they're now totally orphaned.
Toodleoo!
Ron Hebbard.

 

[SteveB]

All great suggestion, I really appreciate all the info. And the Full cage replacements may be a great option down the road...
This leads to a new question... Do the original cd80 supervisor cards listen to DMX or AMX or does it listen to some kind of "Strand language"? Or is this something that can vary from instillation to instillation?

AMX was Strands protocol, also know as AMX192.

If the racks are truly only 15 years old, I'd bet they can listen to, or are already listening to DMX, which by 1992 was pretty much standard.

 

[Mac Hosehead]

This can be a more complex issue than to just replace parts of your system with various components. The pictures show you have CD80 SV dimmer racks and what looks to be a Premiere control station. No pictures of the Premiere cabinet are seen in the set.

In the current system, the CD80s have two DMX inputs. Typically, one would be used for the lighting console and the other would be for the Premiere architectural system. With this setup you could, in theory, replace the Premiere system with anyone's architectural system as long as it outputs DMX and keep the original processors (brains). But there might be other issues involved. Using another manufacture's architectural system would involve pulling new wire for the stations. How much will that cost?

Strand makes an interface that allows for using the Premiere wiring and cabinet for Vision.Net. Maybe this was included with your quotes. Vision.Net is usually wired directly to Strand's modern dimmer racks with the same wire as goes to the stations. The new C21 processors have this port and I assume you were quoted to replace the CD80SVs with these.

Premiere is pretty much dead. Strand will no longer service/replace the processor or the stations. CD80SV processors can still be serviced at approved repair facilities. The quotes you have received would bring the system's electronic components up to what Strand is currently manufacturing.

There are things in the pictures that are not explained. There appears to be a Fleenor merger unit. How is that used in the system? How the system is actually wired might have an influence on the best or cheapest course of action for the upgrade.

It might be interesting to see if someone can quote an upgrade to the architectural system that is not Vision.Net

 

[Chris15]

If the racks are truly only 15 years old, I'd bet they can listen to, or are already listening to DMX, which by 1992 was pretty much standard.

And by 2002, even more so

 

[derekleffew]

The SV is important, as they're a generation newer than the original CD80's.

Two generations, actually.
CD80
CD80AE
CD80SV

 

[VRommel]

All great suggestion, I really appreciate all the info. And the Full cage replacements may be a great option down the road...
This leads to a new question... Do the original cd80 supervisor cards listen to DMX or AMX or does it listen to some kind of "Strand language"? Or is this something that can vary from instillation to instillation?

Good Morning!

The CD80SV rack processor module aka "RPM" listens to DMX512 and also to Strand SMX (Outlook Architectural control and System Wide Control aka "SWC"). That architectural controller with the LCD display might be Outlook/SWC or - as others have suggested here - might be Premiere. If that is Premiere, then you have a situation where the dimmer rack RPM is listening to DMX512 from an external Premiere 2020 processor (assuming that external processor is still in the land of the living). If that is Outlook/SWC, then you have a series of stations communicating directly wtih the RPM over a 3-pair wiring topology (TX/RX/DCV).

I have been away from this for too long to remember the precise details, but there is a battery on the CD80SV RPM motherboard and, when it begins to go, the RPM will begin to exhibit signs of failure. You might - "might" being the operative word here - be able to erxtend the lives of your RPMs by replacing those batteries. It was generally thought that after 10 years of service, those batteries would start to become suspect.

If you PM me, I can give you the names of some talented individuals who can give you some more informed advice about these batteries than I can.

I think that the good people participating in this discussion here at Control Booth would like to see the signal 1-line drawing for this Strand system. It would be incorporated in to the operations manuals delivered with your system when it was installed. It would go a long way to our helping you ascertain if that is an Outlook or Premiere system you have there. If that is Outlook, extending the life of your RPMs with the battery change will buy you some time to convince your administration that now is the time to start reserving funds for the eventual bad hair day your CD80SV RPMs are going to have. If this is Premiere, then you could be at a point right now where your system will soon be inoperable with respect to architectural control.

If you should send that PM to me, we can talk about some solutions available to you from Pathway Connectivity (where I work), but I'll hold back from shameless commerce here. As said a bit earlier, job #1 right now is for you to have a good understanding of what you have and how it is put together. I am quite confidant that the Control Booth community here will be willing to assist with that.

Best Regards.
Pathway Connectivity


Van Rommel
Director Business Development

 

[bharrell]

Here are some contacts that can help you with your Strand system.

Joel Epstein - Century Lighting Services 201.791.7000. One of the most experienced and knowledgeable technicians around.
If you want a more local reference, I would call Jeff O'Brien - Philips Entertainment's Regional Sales Manager for your state. 214.317.2798. He's also very good at systems.

 

[davidelectrics]

In my experience, it's easy enough to repair the processors. I believe Joel was my go to guy for that, but it's been a couple of years. The brains and control stations are coming up on end of life. I have been told that cueserver from interactive technologies can sit on the strand wiring backbone. When we had looked at upgrading a ballroom from Strand to ETC, the electrician was half the cost. If cueserver performs as expected with this new generation of software release then the cheapest possible way of upgrading that would stretch your dollars the furthest would be to repair the processors and put in the cueserver brains. No wiring upgrades, some minor reprogramming.

The best way in my honest opinion, is to the johnson control processor for the rack, cueserver for the brains, bite the budget and get it done for another 25 years.

 

[gafftaper]

Two options come to mind. One is contacting Pathway to see what they can do as they have a lot of interesting new ways of dimmer and architectural control. So contact @VRommel.

Option #2 that comes is to talk to Doug Fleenor designs and see what sort of adapters they make that might help you out. Send a private message to Janelle @jfleenor

It's not going to be cheap, but there may be cheaper.

 

[RickR]

I have had some CD80 SV processor repaired recently. http://www.emlight.com/ (a CB member) did the actual work replacing those batteries and a few other components. We expect 5 or so more years before they need more TLC. The costs are certainly less than a full brain replacement, and vastly less than a complete system. But the constant insecurity of old gear has costs far beyond the repairs. Is your system capable of teaching with LEDs & movers? Networks? Education is the goal and if the system doesn't support the program then you have bigger issues than what band-aid to use.

Whatever you do make sure the powers that be understand the true situation. (Write it down more formally than an email.) They certainly won't throw money at you. However, if you inform them of the looming failures they can start the planning process. It may take years (3, 5, 10, ?) to get everything lined up. Even if they wait until full failure, that old paperwork trail will play a big part in the justification for serious spending.

 

[VRommel]

Two options come to mind. One is contacting Pathway to see what they can do as they have a lot of interesting new ways of dimmer and architectural control. So contact @VRommel.

Option #2 that comes is to talk to Doug Fleenor designs and see what sort of adapters they make that might help you out. Send a private message to Janelle @jfleenor

It's not going to be cheap, but there may be cheaper.

Good Afternoon!

We will be happy to talk with you about the solutions we offer. One is called Choreo NSB [http://www.pathwayconnect.com/index.php/products/dmx-show-controllers-and-consoles/133-choreo-nsb] and the other is Vignette [http://www.pathwayconnect.com/index.php/products/dmx-show-controllers-and-consoles/177-vignette] These two technologies can be incorporated in to a single system control solution. If you have Outlook or Premiere in your system, you can likely re-use the existing station-to-station signal wiring. It will be Belden 9773.

See my earlier post on this thread.

Write to us at [email protected] and we will be happy to start a discussion with you.

We appreciate the opportunity.

Best Regards,
Pathway Connectivity


Van Rommel
Director Business Development

 

[robmonty]

I have many Strand CD80-SV racks in my theatre, bought (from me when i was a dealer) in two lots a few years apart. As some have mentioned, it is possible to keep them running for a few more years by replacing some components on the processor board. The battery and some capacitors that dry out after a few years. I have done this in my current theatre, and for a bunch of other spaces. The nice thing about the SV processor was that it had a multitude of control inputs, 2 digital for light consoles, 1 for Strand House light stations, and analogue inputs and outputs for other uses. The new replacement processors from Strand and Johnson don't have quite the input flexibility, but do offer more than one way to turn the dimmers on. I have been replacing my processors here a few a year with the Strand upgrades.

I also have a large Vision net system that runs the non dims, house lights, building utility lighting that is visible in the audience chamber and on stage, and the on stage work lights, which are also currently dimmable. This all used to be run from 2 Premiere systems. When we changed over to Vision net, we replaced all the button stations spread around the theatre and the giant custom switch panels in the booth, stage management and side stage to 14" touch screens. We used the existing Belden 9773 cable for all this. so we did not have to change any of the miles of field wiring. All of this terminates in the old Premiere cabinet, which has a Vision Net to DMX kit in it. The DMX signal generated by this device goes into a Pathway splitter, and from there branches out to feed the B dmx input of the 14 dimmer racks, as well as a number of GE relay cabinets with Pathway DMX driver cards. There is a small DMX patch panel in a cabinet next to the Vision net device, which would allow me to unplug the entire vision net system and plug in a console in the event of an emergency.

What this leaves me with is a fully functional dimmer system in 14 racks with three universes from the console coming into DMX A, and the house light and work lights usually operating from the Vision net system on DMX B. The house and works can also be programmed into the console cues, since they also operate from DMX A.

SO, all of what you originally asked for can be done without too much trouble. I would suggest that it may be time to put in another house light control system, Vision Net or someone else, that outputs DMX at the end. If you can find stations that will run on the existing wiring (most likely Belden 9773) it will save a lot of wire pulling. This would allow you to drive your existing house dimmers, either through the second DMX input, or through a merger of some kind. I also highly recommend making this hard patchable, which allows you to plug in a small console in the event of emergency. If you leave space in the rack, it prepares you for adding a splitter for DMX driven house light fixtures down the road.

I hope this helps.

Rob Montgomery

 

[Ron Foley]

You have Strand CD 80 sv racks
The Wall stations are most likely Outlook (could be SWC)

your options on the rack are to have the processor repaired.
or put in the C 21 retrofit kit
this is the processor tray that comes in the new C21 racks

as for control
if the stations are damaged, then it is time to replace

Strand Vision net (a current product) not sure where some folk are getting their information from (my friend in burlington)

use a Vision net to DMX card

the second port on the CIC card is where the Outlook presently lands

this becomes DMX B for the Vision net

same wire that is used for the outlook 9773 can be used for Vision net.

we repair CD 80 sv processor frequently , hit rate is about 80%

let me know if you need any further information.

Ron Foley

Hello world.... Calling on all Vision.Net specialists!
We are looking to upgrade a dated architectural system in an auditorium. We currently have 3 strand CD80 racks as well as a Strand Architectural system that is beginning to fail. We really would like to avoid replacing the the entire dimmer racks as well as the brain module in the racks. We were quoted by several companies to replace the system, but they said the only way to do so was to upgrade the brain in the rack. We unfortunately do not have the budget to do so, and all those who quoted would not quote us unless we agreed to replace the dimmer rack brain module. Maybe if you can make a more budget friendly suggestion we are open to new and creative ideas... Any help would be appreciated! Pictures attached to link at the bottom.

Does the CD80 Listen directly to DMX or is there a conversion BOX somewhere that would convert DMX to "Strand Talk"?
If there is a conversion box somewhere, would it work with a newer architectural system or would the conversion box need to be replaced too?

Info about the current install...

We have 3 racks 2 are backstage and control stage lights, one is in a mechanical room in the back of the house for house lighting. You will notice in the pictures that the rack for the house lights has an new module that was installed around five years ago. All racks are controllable via DMX and all are controllable via the architectural system. We have 2 panels that have LCD screens with 8 programmable scenes one in the booth and one at the Stage managers rack. Along with those 2 panels, we have 4 single button push stations scattered around the auditorium (all of which work).

I am also very handy and can usually troubleshoot/install almost anything.

Click link to see pics of the install...

https://1drv.ms/f/s!Ar0AcfDr9rfsrwhUiMwDF2e-WB_E

 

[RonHebbard]

You have Strand CD 80 sv racks
The Wall stations are most likely Outlook (could be SWC)

Your options on the rack are to have the processor repaired.
or put in the C 21 retrofit kit
this is the processor tray that comes in the new C21 racks
As for control:
if the stations are damaged, then it is time to replace

Strand Vision net (a current product) not sure where some folk are getting their information from (my friend in burlington)

use a Vision net to DMX card

the second port on the CIC card is where the Outlook presently lands

this becomes DMX B for the Vision net

same wire that is used for the outlook 9773 can be used for Vision net.

we repair CD 80 sv processors frequently , hit rate is about 80%

let me know if you need any further information.

Ron Foley

@Ethan Martinez @VRommel @Ron Foley @derekleffew @dvsDave @robmonty @RickR @BillConnerFASTC

APOLOGY, APOLOGY. RETRACTION, RETRACTION. CORRECTION, CORRECTION.
Mia culpa. Mia maxima culpa [As my Catholic associates would say]

Mr. Ron Foley [ [email protected] Scenework in Guelph, Ontario. Phone: 519-837-0583] is effectively what remains of Strand Century Canada and has provided the following info' in an e-mail copied verbatim:

Vision net is a current product and shipping daily
I would highly suggest you get your facts straight before launching off and trashing a company
And if you are mistakenly referring to Outlook,
Outlook can still be supported to a point.
It is a 30 plus year old product.
Please put a retraction into Control Booth
Ron Foley​

And there you have it. Straight from the horse's mouth, as it were.
Please excuse me while I hang my head, apply salve to my ego, and proceed with self flagellation.
(and on my birthday besides) [Hoping not to make this an annual tradition]
Edit: Added Scenework telephone number: 519-837-0583
Toodleoo!
Ron Hebbard.