Control/Dimming Stupid Ion Questions 2

Jay Ashworth

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 7, 2014
Location
St Pete FL USA
In my previous post, Stupid Ion Questions 1, I don't think I ever quite got around to asking this, but having now spent some time programming there (finally, shut up) and on our Express 24/48, I now have one very specific, laser-focused question:

When I build a look out of submasters and keyboard and wheel, etc, and I say

[Record]Cue#

two things happen:

It records that look into that cue, and *plays back that cue, in control of the dimmers*.

That's almost *never* what I want to do there. Is there an easy, quick way to leave the dimmers where they are, but disconnect their control from the playback of that recorded cue?

I know I could goto-cue 0, but that will *clear* the dimmers, and I've almost always got people on stage who don't want to be in the dark. In short, it seems like it would be much more seamless to the performers during a tech if I could either recapture control after recording the cue or just not cede it in the first place.

Is either possible?

Should I have gotten that out of the manual (which I've read most of), or the tutorials (which I've watched most of)?

We're presently running... I think 2.2 or 2.3. I hope to upgrade to 2.4 or 2.5 in the next couple weeks.
 

Amiers

Renting to Corporate One Fixture at a Time.
Joined
May 28, 2009
Location
Phoenix, Az
Record stuff in blind. This however requires you to know where each fixture is and what it will look like at a specific intensity.

The ion should be able to Record Cue # - (minus) Sub # . You could do this and leave a sub up for the performers workers.
 

Jay Ashworth

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 7, 2014
Location
St Pete FL USA
Yeah; I'm quite sure I'm not good enough to pull that off; I paint entirely by eyeball... :)

And leaving the sub up isn't all that helpful either, cause the *photons* are on the stage, messing with my painting.
 

Amiers

Renting to Corporate One Fixture at a Time.
Joined
May 28, 2009
Location
Phoenix, Az
Pull their sub down to look at your look and raise it back up when you are switching between cues. It's a lot of finger bleeping but it will get you there.
 

Jay Ashworth

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 7, 2014
Location
St Pete FL USA
It is, and damnit the board cost $15 grand; it ought to be smarter than this. :)

Plus, the solution you suggest *doesn't* uncouple the dimmers from the cue, so I can't back down a sub to a lower level, which was most of the point of this thing...


When I'm programming in real time against real bodies, frankly I ain't got time for 12 extra keystroke I don't remember and can't macro, and the lights to kiss black every time; it makes me look incompetent.

I *am*, but that's a separate issue. :)
 

MRW Lights

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 4, 2017
Location
NYC
.... If I'm not mistaken I think you're looking to disable auto playback in the desk controls?

"When enabled, this feature automatically plays back cues and submasters as they are stored and releases manual control. For submasters to automatically play back, the slider must be at full. This field is a toggle state between “Enabled” and “Disabled”. When auto playback is “Disabled”, all manual levels are maintained and cues must be loaded and executed on playbacks. The default is “Enabled"

perhaps also make an independent submaster or a series of null channels that return you to a base look for the action on stage, maybe use an inhibitive sub to check your look before releasing control so you can see your picture without "extra" stuff?
 

MRW Lights

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 4, 2017
Location
NYC
Wow; that might be it. Is that saved in each show, even though it's a Desk control?

Or do I have to down the software to the shell to reach that knob?
I think I'm trying to see how many times I can edit this post, I think this is the final iteration-

Auto playback is a show saveable "systems setting" filterable state. (I had to test it to make sure)
Review of this post makes me realize some nuances missed over the versions of what can and can't be saved, but this might be something that has been there and I've always saved by default. (lucky me).

I have a show file that I call "Matthew's (ION) Toolbox" it goes where I go and I merge snapshots, palettes, macros, magic sheets (and apparently system settings) into any (EOS) console I walk in to. That way I don't mess with the house system and I have a basic set of tools that can put me straight to work. I use some fairly arbitrary numbers that generally help me avoid anything set up by the house, but occasionally there are conflicts that need cleaning, never a bad idea to check that.

oh also, the navigation is [DISPLAYS] {SETUP} {Desk Settings} from the CIA in any show file. No need to head out to the shell.
 
Last edited:

Jay Ashworth

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 7, 2014
Location
St Pete FL USA
Well, for *me* the import of Desk settings is "I can't change that, cause it will break it for the next guy who expects it to be set a different way and he's my boss." :)

Damn.

Edit: sounds like maybe that's not true: if he reloads his show, he'll get his setting back?

I have a carry-around file, too, but mine is mostly "the cue skeleton of a 4-act show".

Your other suggestions are akin to Amiers', and for me, they amount to "kowtow to the $15000 desk, cause it's not smart enough to kowtow to you" and I didn't actually believe that. :)

The short version of this is "damnit, I'm perfectly happy with how the Smartfade drives, thank-you-very-much" ...
 

chausman

Chase
Premium Member
Fight Leukemia
Joined
Jul 11, 2010
Location
Spokane, WA
I had this problem a lot when I first switched from Express to Ion. And while it's not quite what you're looking for, I've found the easiest way to get around this is to try to get as close as possible to what I want before recording, then pull all of the subs down and make any changes from the keypad. That way I don't get stuck recording lots of cues with the subs up. I also use [Select Active] a lot to bring everything down (blackout, darker scene) and can use faders to bring them back if I want to. Granted, I also use Nomad a lot so I'm not using physical faders.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Jay Ashworth

Jay Ashworth

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 7, 2014
Location
St Pete FL USA
No, I'm pretty sure Matthew's No Auto Playback thing is going to be what I need, from the description. On what I suspect are the rare occasions I'll need to play a cue, I can sure goto it.
 

Jay Ashworth

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 7, 2014
Location
St Pete FL USA
Now, as a followup now I've slept on it:

While No Auto Playback will solve many of my problems, I will occasionally have to play a cue, and it'd still be nice to know if there's a way to "unplay" one -- I want the Playback, whichever one it is, to release the channels its grabbed and go idle, leaving them in control of whatever else had them before, be that groups, submasters, the wheel, or what have you.

Is there a way to do that?
 

MRW Lights

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 4, 2017
Location
NYC
Now, as a followup now I've slept on it:

While No Auto Playback will solve many of my problems, I will occasionally have to play a cue, and it'd still be nice to know if there's a way to "unplay" one -- I want the Playback, whichever one it is, to release the channels its grabbed and go idle, leaving them in control of whatever else had them before, be that groups, submasters, the wheel, or what have you.

Is there a way to do that?
.... I don't like saying no... so maybe? have you tried off/release on the fader? This will return it to it's background state or take everything to 0 similarly release will send you to the first cue in the list which is not always desirable, but when you playback a cue it will override your manual data. This might be a case in which you could make use of a capture to hold a background state?

You could also get nerdy and write a Macro, the popular "save this" macro in busking that throws a look into a preset and another macro that releases the fader, brings your background look back and makes the information manual? It would take some setup, but possible.
 

Jay Ashworth

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 7, 2014
Location
St Pete FL USA
.... I don't like saying no... so maybe? have you tried off/release on the fader? This will return it to it's background state or take everything to 0 similarly release will send you to the first cue in the list which is not always desirable, but when you playback a cue it will override your manual data. This might be a case in which you could make use of a capture to hold a background state?
I sort of have the feeling the problem here is that I don't yet have a sufficiently clear mental model of how the internals actually work -- something in which the manual really is just no help at all: it doesn't build on concepts; it defines things as you come to them, in terms of other things you haven't yet learned.

It may well be that the stack frame I want to pop back to never exists, cause it wasn't saved anywhere when I played the cue, and it just flat replaced it.

I'll poke at it some more...
 

MRW Lights

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 4, 2017
Location
NYC
It does? My experience has been this:

1) Go to a black stage
2) Set up a cue with submasters
3) [Record]Cue#
4) Pull one sub down noting nothing happens
5) [GotoCue]0
6) Stage goes black.

You're saying I should get a different result in step 6?

with auto playback disabled you should see something happen in step 4. However based on your previous question of once a cue is recalled on purpose and you want to dump out of it then raise intensity values as either manual or submaster data and then go to cue 0. You can also go to cue 0 without interrupting your command line, but using the fader control go to cue 0 and load on the appropriate fader. If you want to release the fader (keeping your cue list ready to execute the next cue in sequence you can use off if you wish to not reset your cue list to first cue in the list.)