Suggested DMX software for learning how to program?

[sisko445]

I have been charged with finding software that can be used in a course called "Automated Lights and Control Systems."

The course previously used M-PC and we found it to be rather buggy and problematic.

We're trying to find a balance between 1) professional level software that represents industry standards and 2) more accessible, easier to use and cross-platform.

I just wonder what you folks think. Looking at MA on PC, Hog, Chamsys MagiQ... any others I should add to the list?

 

[hobbsies]

Sure, you could use these, but learning to program on the PC versions of these consoles is super annoying, and in order to program on them efficiently, you need to learn the keyboard shortcuts to most of the keys on the desk, which is counter productive, in my opinion, to learning to use the board themselves because you don't learn the layout of the console or get practice using the keys. There's no way you can rent one of these boards? Do you own moving lights that you will be programming?

 

[ejsandstrom]

Try Jands Vista. Very little if any short cut keys. Its very easy to patch and unpatch. And you dont need to use a number pad for programming. Super visual as well. You make all the LEDs red, and they look red. It also works with WYSIWYG.

 

[SteveB]

Also the Eos family off-line editing software. Mirrors the consoles themselves. You can program using the virtual keyboard to avoid using computer keyboard shortcuts.

You can connect to Capture pre-viz software to see the results, similar to what WYSIWYG offers, yet teaches you how the OS operates.

 

[sisko445]

we have a handful of modest moving lights that we will use in a studio for most of the semester. Maybe a dozen QSpot 160s and a couple of larger fixtures. Renting probably isn't an option for us. But it's a good point that it's best to avoid getting confused by keyboard shortcuts and screwy attempts at recreating console operation.

 

[lwinters630]

Also the Eos family off-line editing software. Mirrors the consoles themselves. You can program using the virtual keyboard

I use the Eos/Ion off line and love it. with the ML screen you can see the color and patterns for the ML you are programing.

Does anyone know if you can use an extended second screen to put the virtual keyboard in?

 

[Footer]

I would stick with a programmer based console such as Hog, GrandMA, or Chamsys. It introduces a way of programming that takes a bit to master. That being said, I would give a few rental shops a call (Creative Stage Lighting, any of the NYC shops) and see if you can work out a deal to rent a few consoles from them over a period of a month or so and spend some time with a variety of gear. It is everyones slow season, so the might be able to work something out.

 

[sisko445]

I bumped into QLight Controller, the open source, dual platform is very appealing so that students can easily have their own copy of the software to work with. Does anyone have experience with this system?

 

[cbrandt]

Out of curiousity, what did you find buggy and problematic out of M-PC? Might help us point you towards the right one. As well, I use it pretty often as an editor for my consoles, and have run into very few issues. Would be nice to know what other people like and don't like about it.

 

[AhClem]

If you're looking to use it in an educational setting, you might want to take a look at the Capture Polar visualization software package. You can obtain an educational 6-seat license to use in a classroom setting. Their software works with any system that supports the CITP protocol and until recently they offered "Console Editions" for several different console manufacturers (they've now added a free 'Student Edition' and a single universe 'Solo Edition) . PM me if you'd like more info on using it and I'll a be happy to answer any questions I can.

 

[gafftaper]

I think you need to make an important distinction here. Are you looking for an educational tool to teach the concepts or are you trying to teach how to program a real world console? There's a big difference. If your goal is to teach people how to program a real world rock and roll show you should focus on MA and Hog. If your goal is to teach how to program a Broadway style theater production that includes some movers then EOS and Strand's Palette software are what you need. If your goal is real world programming I would actually try to use all four (Plus Jands if you can squeeze it in) so that students get hands on experience with the main programs they will actually encounter in the real world.

 

[JChenault]

I think you need to make an important distinction here. Are you looking for an educational tool to teach the concepts or are you trying to teach how to program a real world console? There's a big difference. If your goal is to teach people how to program a real world rock and roll show you should focus on MA and Hog. If your goal is to teach how to program a Broadway style theater production that includes some movers then EOS and Strand's Palette software are what you need. If your goal is real world programming I would actually try to use all four (Plus Jands if you can squeeze it in) so that students get hands on experience with the main programs they will actually encounter in the real world.

And if you are trying to teach the concepts of lighting design, look for something that is dead simple to use, but powerful enough to let your students exercise their abilities.

( Shamless commercial plug ). We did a short course in moving lights for a number of high school teachers on an earlier version of our software and it was well received.

If you want to check out Plexus as a possible solution, the URL is below.

http://www.gamonline.com/catalog/plexus/index.php

 

[sisko445]

a big part of the problem with M-PC was portability and some trouble with visualization. we wanted each student to be able to go home and work on projects on their own time, using MSD to render their work. There was some licensing issue that I never understood, which meant that MSD could only be used on the network, and for some reason only one or two students could work at the same time without the software crawling to a halt.

Also, MPC had little odd bugs (which I attributed to us having no console.) It seemed that certain actions weren't consistent from session to session. Like sometimes you had to press enter twice, sometimes not. the faders and keypad would sometimes go away inexplicably... very frustrating. I didn't set up the system, so much of it is a mystery to me.

So now as TA for the course, I've been tasked with finding a better solution, whatever that means. I will be making tutorial videos of whatever we end up going with. The professor is definitely design-oriented and wants as little confusion as possible, while also offering the students a decent picture of what automated lighting is all about. It's difficult to answer gafftapers question regarding our pedagogical goals because we're somewhere in the middle. The dept. is theater, film and dance, so there is definitely a broadway slant... we don't expect students to become rock concert programmers, but the final project (last year, at least) is a live concert with a modest moving lights rig.

maybe we're biting off more than we should, but with all the solutions out there I'm sure we can find something. I'm making a list of all the packages worth looking at. And then I'll test over the course of this semester so that we can try something new in the spring. I really appreciate all of your suggestions. Your opinions are invaluable.

 

[Grog12]

Try Jands Vista. Very little if any short cut keys. Its very easy to patch and unpatch. And you dont need to use a number pad for programming. Super visual as well. You make all the LEDs red, and they look red. It also works with WYSIWYG.

I'd stay away from Jands until after EOS/MA/Hog style software for this class. It has its ups and its downs but doesn't really fall into the "industry standard" qualification for the class.

 

[JoDrRe]

I used Q Light Controller for about a year and a half. I found it too restrictive for what I wanted to be able to do, design-wise.

Moved to MagicQ and highly recommend them. The new version of the software comes with a visualizer, which would be perfect for a classroom environment.

 

[cbrandt]

It does sound like something with an integrated visualizer would work best for your needs. I *think* that limits you to MagicQ and GrandMA, however I'm not certain on that. Avo has an integrated visualizer, but I haven't personally had any luck getting the pc software to work nicely. You'll have an easier time getting access to dongles and art-net from MagicQ, but GrandMA is more industry accepted in the US.

That being said, if you were using MSD for visualization before, it sounds like you may have a bit of money to spend. You may consider splitting your console decisions from your visualizer decisions. There are a number of professional level visualization programs (MSD, ESPVision, WYSIWIG, etc) that will accept art-net data from any sort of console.