Its like a lot of highschools around here have started buying movers. Some owning around 20-30 movers. Now once these students get spoiled and need to go to programmming massive amounts of S4's or P64's i'm sure a lot of them wont be able to tell you how to bench a S4 or what spinning the bottle in a P64 means. These schools also get shocked when they have a problem with a light and they are looking at around 100 bucks for a tech to show up before the tech even picks up a tool.
Suggestions On Follow Spot To Purchase?
- Thread starterrosebudld
- Start date
Sean, I couldn't help but feel that most of this post was directed at me, so I'll take the liberty to respond.
I haven't put it in the air in the 18 months I've had the knowledge and understanding to do so. I'd like to get a chance to work with it before I move on, but am not about to shove it into an inappropriate situation. I would qualify an "excuse" as the right time for "X" effect, because (as relating to the recent discussion of 20 dimmers) are most effects ever really needed?
To elaborate on this issue, as you seem to insinuate that my method of design is to "put all the cool stuff in the air", the one time I've used the gobo rotator in the same 18 month period was in February, for a large a cappella concert. For a 50 second portion of a medley song, the a cappella director (can't think of the correct term) said he'd like "wavelike motion". The rotator fit the bill. Though I considered an abstract breakup in the rotator for Act I Scene 9 in the Sound of Music.
rolleyesAgreed, and I made mention of that in a previous post in this thread.
Nope. Our staff's knowledge base is severely limited. But what's done is done, now the gear is here.
I agree with your comment about the educational value of using this equipment, and the comment about having enough S4s. However, I disagree that the aforementioned gear does not have much of a legitimate use; though, In the high school sector, I can see your point.
I agree with the general consensus about not purchasing inappropriate equipment for a high school.
As it is, my school is about to do a large renovation to its theater and I've been given the task of reviewing the design documents and creating an equipment purchasing list.
I have specifically steered away from complex DMX equipment or gear that will be under utilized. However, I do have the understanding that our AV crew is fairly competent, under good direction, and in an area full of stagehands, designers, and electricians who would be more than happy to give seminars, workshops, etc. That notion has driven some of my purchases such as portable dimming (smart bars), scrollers, and a few rotators. I'm confident that the system I will leave in place will not leave this equipment under utilized and will only aid the educational process. I think that complex and interesting equipment is more than appropriate and is welcome, but only if there is a strong educational and supervisory system in place to teach the kids the benefits of such equipment, how to work them into a design, how to maintenance them, etc.
This is on top of the 80+ conventionals that will be purchased for the main stage and the new black box to compliment our already 80+ rig.
As it is, my school is about to do a large renovation to its theater and I've been given the task of reviewing the design documents and creating an equipment purchasing list.
I have specifically steered away from complex DMX equipment or gear that will be under utilized. However, I do have the understanding that our AV crew is fairly competent, under good direction, and in an area full of stagehands, designers, and electricians who would be more than happy to give seminars, workshops, etc. That notion has driven some of my purchases such as portable dimming (smart bars), scrollers, and a few rotators. I'm confident that the system I will leave in place will not leave this equipment under utilized and will only aid the educational process. I think that complex and interesting equipment is more than appropriate and is welcome, but only if there is a strong educational and supervisory system in place to teach the kids the benefits of such equipment, how to work them into a design, how to maintenance them, etc.
This is on top of the 80+ conventionals that will be purchased for the main stage and the new black box to compliment our already 80+ rig.
cvanp
Active Member
I don't know much about specific follow spots, but based on past experience I can say you should invest in something that will last.
Our current followspot (I unfortunately don't know what it is) has been with us for around 30 years or so... it is, as we say, "a beast". It's a bit overpowered for our school (we have it positioned as far away as it can be, and it's still too bright and the light is "ugly") but it is sturdy and long-lasting, and for a high school, that's super important.
I'm sure that most light stuff today is designed to be relatively long lasting, so I don't even know if that is an important concern to have anymore, but that might be something to think about. Plan for the future, even if you won't be around ;-)
{[Similarly, although I LOVE digital consoles, that is a huge area of concern for me - they will become rapidly outdated far too quickly, and schools will be either forced to upgrade or they will leave their theatre tech in states of degradation. Even worse, the whole computerized aspect makes them far more temperamental to work with... makes it more difficult and more expensive to fix them, especially being a school who doesn't have a trained staff for the consoles on hand.]}
Our current followspot (I unfortunately don't know what it is) has been with us for around 30 years or so... it is, as we say, "a beast". It's a bit overpowered for our school (we have it positioned as far away as it can be, and it's still too bright and the light is "ugly") but it is sturdy and long-lasting, and for a high school, that's super important.
I'm sure that most light stuff today is designed to be relatively long lasting, so I don't even know if that is an important concern to have anymore, but that might be something to think about. Plan for the future, even if you won't be around ;-)
{[Similarly, although I LOVE digital consoles, that is a huge area of concern for me - they will become rapidly outdated far too quickly, and schools will be either forced to upgrade or they will leave their theatre tech in states of degradation. Even worse, the whole computerized aspect makes them far more temperamental to work with... makes it more difficult and more expensive to fix them, especially being a school who doesn't have a trained staff for the consoles on hand.]}
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Charc,
Though not directly intended for you, the point is that unless a school has the infrastructure (both skill level, and bugetarily) to support the equipment, then it's ultimately a big waste. That's especially true if the school, like most, doesn't have enough convention equipment for its space.
I appreciate that you get what I'm saying, and it's good that you're not putting all the gear in the air. The more thoroughly focused the plan for the design is, usually the better the end product ends up looking.
--Sean
Though not directly intended for you, the point is that unless a school has the infrastructure (both skill level, and bugetarily) to support the equipment, then it's ultimately a big waste. That's especially true if the school, like most, doesn't have enough convention equipment for its space.
I appreciate that you get what I'm saying, and it's good that you're not putting all the gear in the air. The more thoroughly focused the plan for the design is, usually the better the end product ends up looking.
--Sean
What was the title of this thread again? Oh yeah: Suggestions On Follow Spot To Purchase?
rosebudld, sorry we wandered so far off topic; but everyone is looking to help you make the most of your limited resources. Tell us more about your space and intended use, and we'll continue to make constructive suggestions, about followspots.
rosebudld, sorry we wandered so far off topic; but everyone is looking to help you make the most of your limited resources. Tell us more about your space and intended use, and we'll continue to make constructive suggestions, about followspots.
All and all Lycien seems to be the best for your dollar in my experience. I don't do a lot of follow spot operation, but I can tell you my experience of them from our rental house. Good optics, well built and reliable.
The M2 Line looks fantastic, but I've only been able to demo them. The time I did have with them made me wish we could get a pair into our inventory for those times when I am on follow spot duty.
The spots we do have are two 1275 super stars. Also good lights, just low-frills compared to the M2, so that might be what you want in your situation anyway if you have the money. They are extremely popular spots for corporate events, at least here in San Diego, every one of the major renal houses has at least a pair. However, both the superstars and M2s are probably out of the range of most schools.
We use a Midget in our shop as our budget light. It's been on countless rentals, usually just thrown into the back of people's trucks or into their trunks, abused in more ways then we even know, yet has only needed minor repairs over the years. It would probably be my recommendation for most schools, but it sounds like it might not have the throw you need. Which leaves the Midget II. I haven't had much experience with the Midget II, but it seemed about on par with it's predecessor, so with it's better throw it might be just what you are looking for in both price and quality.
My experience with Strong, Altmen and Phoebus hasn't been so good, but much too limited to weigh in on them, other then to say that Lycien seemed to have the leg up on quality. Beyond Lycien I've heard that Robert Juliat are fantastic spots, if not the best from most everyone, but, are a huge step up in price.
The M2 Line looks fantastic, but I've only been able to demo them. The time I did have with them made me wish we could get a pair into our inventory for those times when I am on follow spot duty.
The spots we do have are two 1275 super stars. Also good lights, just low-frills compared to the M2, so that might be what you want in your situation anyway if you have the money. They are extremely popular spots for corporate events, at least here in San Diego, every one of the major renal houses has at least a pair. However, both the superstars and M2s are probably out of the range of most schools.
We use a Midget in our shop as our budget light. It's been on countless rentals, usually just thrown into the back of people's trucks or into their trunks, abused in more ways then we even know, yet has only needed minor repairs over the years. It would probably be my recommendation for most schools, but it sounds like it might not have the throw you need. Which leaves the Midget II. I haven't had much experience with the Midget II, but it seemed about on par with it's predecessor, so with it's better throw it might be just what you are looking for in both price and quality.
My experience with Strong, Altmen and Phoebus hasn't been so good, but much too limited to weigh in on them, other then to say that Lycien seemed to have the leg up on quality. Beyond Lycien I've heard that Robert Juliat are fantastic spots, if not the best from most everyone, but, are a huge step up in price.
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Hi all again, I haven't checked back on my original post from earlier this week; and all I can say is thanks so much for the input ,but yes the digression into high school purchases was..
Let me attempt to give you a better layout of what I'm looking at..
Effingham, IL is between St. Louis and Indianapolis and Chicago and Memphis etc. So we're a roadhouse that is a brand new operation pretty much.. we opened our doors in November '07 and have hit the ground running.. we're a 1500 seat thrust style venue that has so far been mostly succesful with country and comedy acts, but have had really good response to a ballet and other more theatrical productions.. we also host the local theatre groups productions that are a by nature less professional, but I do my best to incorporate appropriate lighting design to what the director wants to acheive etc.
We've been renting Lycian Super Arc 350s and they're just a little over powering at this 100' distance especially to video, and their positioning doesn't help.. they're on boxes approximately 4' off the ground split FOH center with two additional boxes if necessary on either side of the auditorium.. so basically it's like staring down a freight train for performers.. that's why I'm feeling kind of stuck in the midrange of spots here where consumer church/high school crap isn't going to cut it yet some of the pro lighting is going to be too much.. surprisingly we do get the requests frequently for Super Troupers, and I just defer that what we'll have here is sufficient for what we need to do for their show..
And don't get me wrong on the staring down a freight train thing, I really don't care if performers can see as long as they can be seen and look good.. ha ha.. ;^) and cooking the drummer on a rock show is fun too..
My budget is probably $4-5k (I meant to say per unit! sorry!) tops because we'd like to get four units if possible; however, with that being said the majority of our shows to date we've used only two units, so we could get by in that capacity and rent more spots as necessary..
I really like some of the suggestions offered and will check into those spots ASAP; I'm in the position here of being literally the only guy who's ever done lighting, so I'm sure you all can appreciate that position. I'll check into the New Member Forum so you guys can get a little more info about me and my job here..
Thanks again, and if the budgetary and positioning and layout etc. helps that's great!
Let me attempt to give you a better layout of what I'm looking at..
Effingham, IL is between St. Louis and Indianapolis and Chicago and Memphis etc. So we're a roadhouse that is a brand new operation pretty much.. we opened our doors in November '07 and have hit the ground running.. we're a 1500 seat thrust style venue that has so far been mostly succesful with country and comedy acts, but have had really good response to a ballet and other more theatrical productions.. we also host the local theatre groups productions that are a by nature less professional, but I do my best to incorporate appropriate lighting design to what the director wants to acheive etc.
We've been renting Lycian Super Arc 350s and they're just a little over powering at this 100' distance especially to video, and their positioning doesn't help.. they're on boxes approximately 4' off the ground split FOH center with two additional boxes if necessary on either side of the auditorium.. so basically it's like staring down a freight train for performers.. that's why I'm feeling kind of stuck in the midrange of spots here where consumer church/high school crap isn't going to cut it yet some of the pro lighting is going to be too much.. surprisingly we do get the requests frequently for Super Troupers, and I just defer that what we'll have here is sufficient for what we need to do for their show..
And don't get me wrong on the staring down a freight train thing, I really don't care if performers can see as long as they can be seen and look good.. ha ha.. ;^) and cooking the drummer on a rock show is fun too..
My budget is probably $4-5k (I meant to say per unit! sorry!) tops because we'd like to get four units if possible; however, with that being said the majority of our shows to date we've used only two units, so we could get by in that capacity and rent more spots as necessary..
I really like some of the suggestions offered and will check into those spots ASAP; I'm in the position here of being literally the only guy who's ever done lighting, so I'm sure you all can appreciate that position. I'll check into the New Member Forum so you guys can get a little more info about me and my job here..
Thanks again, and if the budgetary and positioning and layout etc. helps that's great!
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JD
Well-Known Member
Video makes it rough because it has a limited contrast range. Get the background good and the performer is washed out, get the performer good and the background is black. The times you shoot video have to be handled differently then the general performances. (Neutral density in the boom until you get a good max brightness balance.) $4-5k for four lights really is a problem and probably limits you to used equipment. If you stretch the budget a bit, you might be able to pick up two used xenon troupers, and that will help with the requests you get. If you only get a couple of requests for four spots, then handle those needs with rentals, and focus your money on two.
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It looks like Lycian has a new spot or two on the horizon. We're betting in our shop that it's going to replace the Super Arc line, but we've not really done much digging into it, so it's just speculation on my part at this point. Still, it might be worth giving someone at Lycian a call at least, as they may be something you are looking for if you are looking to spend a little less then the Juliats.
JD
Well-Known Member
Well, there are a lot of Trouper models, even within the xenon family. I remember working with some 700 watt units that were a pretty cool mix of a smaller spot but with the same feel as the big ones.
I think all the "Troupers" Strong sells now are "Super Troupers", but that was not always the case. The smaller power ones were just known as "Troupers."
I think all the "Troupers" Strong sells now are "Super Troupers", but that was not always the case. The smaller power ones were just known as "Troupers."
JD
Well-Known Member
We used two Altman Satellites in the clubs for about 10 years, beat the snot out of them (Actually, a roadie that I later returned the favor to) and they worked every night! Great spots despite the fact that they look like a 1000Q on steroids! One thing I liked about them better then the Lycian was that the Ballast was a separate box. Wasn't too bad to lift. Also, I liked the position of those chrome handles.
I'm surprised that no one has talked about the phoebus ultra arc II yet. They come in a long throw version and a short throw version. I know the long throw uses a HTI 400 Watt lamp and because of the optics, it looks as if it is a 1,500 watt follow spot. If anything phoebus is another brand to look into. And Rosebudld I have two of the Phoebus Ultra Arc II in the Chicago suburbs, if you are going to be in the area and you want to test one let me know.
JD
Well-Known Member
Before I sold the Spot division back in 86, I had 4 of the Phoebus Ultra Arcs (Guess they would be "1" now, as that was before numbers!) Anyway, they were a fantastic spot. The ones I had used the Marc350 lamp, which had a short life. (Same as the first generation of Varilites.) I did have a couple of the E-ballasts go bad, but that was way, way back when, before E-ballasts became reliable. They were great alternatives to Supers where power was limited. About the same size, but less that 1/4 the weight!
Update:
Looks like we'll be renting spots for awhile longer due to budget constraints.. the production company we've been renting from just supplied us with two Robert Juliat Topaze units and they seem to be great so far.. they've got a MSD1200 bulb which gives a nice white light.. everything seems to be well balanced and easy to operate.. one negative though.. the color booms drop off the front of the spot so when you change frames it jiggles the whole unit and is rather louder than units with internal boomerangs.. so I'll give them a B+/A- based on that one design flaw for what I needed..
Looks like we'll be renting spots for awhile longer due to budget constraints.. the production company we've been renting from just supplied us with two Robert Juliat Topaze units and they seem to be great so far.. they've got a MSD1200 bulb which gives a nice white light.. everything seems to be well balanced and easy to operate.. one negative though.. the color booms drop off the front of the spot so when you change frames it jiggles the whole unit and is rather louder than units with internal boomerangs.. so I'll give them a B+/A- based on that one design flaw for what I needed..
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