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The future has arrived....

Discussion in 'Lighting and Electrics' started by BillESC, Jul 7, 2008.

  1. BillESC

    BillESC Well-Known Member Premium Member

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    REVO-100

    100w LED MOVING HEAD

    • 11 sharp dichroic colors + open.
    • 6 easily replaceable, rotating gobos + open.
    • Various kinds of glass gobos are available for the client’s choice.
    • Rotating 3-facet prism.
    • 1-12fps fast flashing, and 0-100% linear dimmer.
    Shutter and dimmer can function at the same time.
    • Remote-controlled focus.
    • Remote-controlled lamp ON/OFF switch.
    • Smooth and silent revolving with a large range of 570 degrees in the
    X axis and 270 degrees in the Y axis; automatic electronic sensor to zero.
    Attractively smooth design
    • Stylish, high impact-resistant polymer shell is lighter than any other of
    the same class on the market.
    • Solid square base is convenient to set on truss or stand directly on the
    ground or stage for use.
    • Systematic modular-construction design of inner function wheels and
    PCBs makes version updating and customization convenient.
    • Sophisticated optical system makes light output brighter and sharper.
    Simple and easy operation
    • Standard USITT DMX-512 protocol with 13 or 11 DMX channels.
    • High-torque stepper motors with smooth and precise micro-stepping control.
    LED screen controls DMX coding and selection of built-in functions,
    and also displays lamp’s time usage.
    • 180 degree reverse setting on display panel for convenient reading
    when fixture is hung upside-down.
    • Pan & Tilt can be set on initial DMX channels or on later channels.
    LED DMX signal detector on control panel to detect DMX signal easily.

    This new fixture has the output of a moving head using a MSD 250 light source.

    Pictures coming soon.
     
  2. Les

    Les Well-Known Member

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    So Bill, are you at liberty to say who makes it?

    Edit: Just yahoo'd "revo-100 led" and came up with an American DJ Revo Series.

    Seriously?!
     
  3. lieperjp

    lieperjp Well-Known Member

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    [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZVS6V0jl1K4[/media]

    This thing?
     
  4. JD

    JD Well-Known Member

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  5. Jezza

    Jezza Active Member

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    Company is Neo-Neon as far as I can tell -- another American DJ like company with production coming from China.

    Sounds promising, but don't they all. Bill, have you seen one of these in action? Can it compete?
     
  6. JD

    JD Well-Known Member

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    From the company's website:

    2008-7-8

    Now the REVOlution has begun

    Neo-Neon has finished the development of the world¡¯s first full featured full sized moving head luminaries based on the Geni Electronics, OBY3 fixture. The REVO100 (Short for Revolution), as these products are truly revolutionary, utilizes Neo-Neon¡¯s 100W WLED SSLE (White LED Solid State Light Engine) Replacing the MSD 250 Lamp.


    Almost sounds like they have a 100 watt single source LED. If they do, they have a hot item and we are going to be hearing a lot about this company. This is the first time I ran into the name.

    I would put them in a class well above ADJ as they just wooped all of our a***s here in the states. We shall see if it is what it is. If so, it truly is a Revolution.
     
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2008
  7. BillESC

    BillESC Well-Known Member Premium Member

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    The Mfg is Neo-Neon and Irradiant is the US distribution arm. We are an authorized dealer and will have more information shortly. This all finalized today.

    It is indeed a 100w LED light source. They will also be offering a Par can with 36 one watt LEDs for half the price of Elation's unit.
     
  8. Pie4Weebl

    Pie4Weebl Well-Known Member Fight Leukemia

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    I will believe it when I see it.
     
  9. SerraAva

    SerraAva Active Member

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    Half the price of Elation's unit? Dealer cost would be dirt then. How are they then making money off of it?

    I am also like Pie in that I will believe it when i see it. LEDs don't project all the light of the spectrum, just a very specific wave length. Color media works by blocking wave lengths. So this should be interesting. Studies are actually showing that just using LED only lights in your home can be damaging to your eyes because of the narrow spectrum they cover. LEDs drop off in intensity faster over distances then conventional lamps do. LEDs also don't spread into bigger beams as efficiently as lamps do either.

    It is also not like lamp development is dead either. Optics on lamps keep improving. Elation's DS250 Pro is 16% brighter then the regular DS250. They also continue to release newer and newer lamps with better lumen per watt output. Granted, the lumen per watt of a lamp will never be as great as an LED, but don't count lamps out just yet.

    So my question then is which 250w fixture are they comparing it to over how much distance and what beam size?
     
  10. BillESC

    BillESC Well-Known Member Premium Member

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    As I indicated in the original post, arrangements took place today. I'll have units shortly to evaluate and will post my findings in a timely manner. This happens to be our busy time of the year event wise so answers won't be available tomorrow. Patience please.

    Still, a 100w LED is an exciting developement in this ongoing technology.
     
  11. LDTom

    LDTom Member

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    Ill believe that when I see it. If somebody made a 1000 Watt LED Fixture then I would be impressed. I've seen the SHOWPIX in person and lets just say the LED technology is not there yet. The future looks promising.
     
  12. derekleffew

    derekleffew Resident Curmudgeon Senior Team Premium Member

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    Please explain how the inverse square law applies differently to LED sources???
     
  13. JD

    JD Well-Known Member

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    Have to agree with Derek, drop off is math, should not vary with source.

    Now, as for white, I have no idea what the 100 watt LED works like, but conventional white LEDs are actually a UV LED with phosphor. The quality of the white spectrum is governed by the mix of phosphor used.

    As for a 1000 watt LED.... Well, technology tends to progress at a logarithmic rate. If there is now a 100 watt LED, 1000 watts can't be too far away.

    The real question is if the unit will perform. My understanding on white LEDs is that there is a color shift that occurs as the phosphors age. They are rating this source at 50,000 hours. That's almost 6 years of "on" time. Hard to imagine they waited one out to see if it lived that long.
     
  14. SerraAva

    SerraAva Active Member

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    I am not arguing math, I am simply stating that LEDs drop off in intensity over distance faster then lamps do. LEDs and lamps produce light differently. Therefor, different math. Just the same, lumen per watt increases or decreases depending on the optic train of the fixture. So that throws another curve ball into math which is why I call into question which fixture at how much distance and what size. Efficiency of the light source is also a factor. It is not as simple as plug it into an equation and you get a number.

    Examples: Elation's DLED108; Doubling the distance with a 25 degree lens (47 degree spread) results in a 75.7% drop in intensity. 45 degree lens (56 degree spread), 73.4% drop. 15 degree lens (44 degree spread), 71.5% drop. All the DLED stuff is from 5' to 10'. Going from a 15 degree lens to a 25 degree lens causes a 43.2% drop in intensity at same distance for a size increase of 14.3%.

    ParNel, 11 degree beam 72.1% drop from 30' to 60'. 25 degree beam 75% drop from 15' to 30'. Going from a 11 degree beam to a 25 degree beam results in a 75.1% drop at same distance for size increase of 47.4%. A regular Par is more efficient then a ParNel. Then the lekos are even better, less then 70% drop for all beams.

    Now, me spitting these numbers looks bad on my part, but here comes the kicker. A DS575E at 15 degrees, going from 2.5m to 5m results in a loss of intensity of 77.7% but going from 5m to 10m results in a drop of 73.6%. At 30 degree beam angle, 2.5m to 5m is 79% drop and 5m to 10m is 70.5% drop. Size to size at 2.5m, 69.6% drop and 51.9% size increase.

    So what does this all mean, optics for different lights are different. However, a size increase for LEDs hurts them more then lamps, 43.2% drop for only a 14.3% increase in size? That is a 3.02% drop of intensity for every percentage increase in size. The lamps, 1.35% drop in intensity for every percentage increase in size for the DS575E. For a ParNel, 1.58% drop in intensity for every percentage increase in size. Lamps are more or less twice as efficient in increasing size. And as for distance, the DLED108 was at distances much less then the lamps were, and I only have data for 1.5m or roughly 5' (4.9') and 3m or roughly 10' (9.8').

    I will have to try and dig for better LED distance data for better distance increase comparisons. Need more doubling data and greater distances.

    JD, I assume the aging coating of an LED will just be like the drop in color temperature as a lamp ages. How much it will effect the light, no one can say just yet. Should leave some white LEDs on for 24/7 for a while and measure the drop in intensity over time.
     
  15. MNicolai

    MNicolai Well-Known Member Fight Leukemia

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    And we're positive it isn't 100w total when you add up all of the different LED's on it?
     
  16. icewolf08

    icewolf08 CBMod CB Mods

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    I think that given all that info you have proven that the Inverse Square Law applies to all light sources. On average, given a doubling of throw distance (with the figures you presented) there is an intensity loss of 75% +/- 2%. Given that we have no idea how all the numbers were generated, and if all the test equipment was the same at each manufacturer that seems pretty reasonable.

    However, I don't think that it is fair to compare some fixtures at 30' throws and some at 5' throws. The math should hold true no matter what, but there is probably a reason the LED fixture was not metered at 30' (i.e. it didn't produce a useful field at that distance). This is really the thing about current LED technology, for the most part it is designed for shorter throw applications, thus why apparantly you loose light faster. When you start with a smaller output, the effective throw distance gets a lot shorter.

    So the short of all that is that I agree with Derek, the Law is a Law because it olds true for all fixtures (and the numbers, as I read them, support that). There shoudn't be different maths for different sources as no matter what the source, it is the same photonic emissions that produce light.
     
  17. SerraAva

    SerraAva Active Member

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    Yes, it is and around 75%. But a 9% drop for the DS575E? That is going from one statistical extreme to the other if the error is +/- 2%. The DS250, 2.5m to 5m is only a 64.2% drop, 5m to 10m 68.5%, very extreme. the other two lenses fallow the same pattern with being under the extreme as well. My point is different lights drop off differently. I would like the data on the Impression to clear all this up but haven't found anything yet. Since it has the power of a 575w wash, it would clear the air nicely.

    I think, however, we can all agree that LEDs do indeed drop in intensity much faster as size increases compared to lamps. They are just not great at

    Also, a DLED108, ironically, still can't keep up with a 750w HPL. So is there a point of diminishing returns with LEDs and intensity? 100w LED light to keep up with a 250w arc lamp, but again, I call into question fixture, beam size, and distance.

    I just found some more data as well. Opti RGB. With a 15 degree beam, 5m to 10m is 73.9%. 10m to 20m is 68.5%. With a 45 degree beam, 5 to 10m is 70.2% and 10m to 20m is 55.6% (most likely a fluke do to the fact that at 10m it is 5.4 lux and 20m 2.4 lux). Now upping the standard, going from 5m to 20m with a 15 degree beam drops 91.8% drop. The DS20 from 5m to 20m (calculated by the following: (1-(.642+.685)\2)*586=196.9 lux at 20m) drops 89.4% and the DS575E for 5m to 20m (lux calculated same way) for 30 degree drops 92.6% and 15 degree drops 93.6%. So this throws even more nonsense into the air.

    So now I guess the rule is don't follow laws blindly, just use them as more rule of thumb. F=ma, while great and very useful, still has its points where it is wrong and has a major flaw within the equation itself. I'll admit however, I thought the LEDs would fair worse then they did over distance. I'll have to keep plugging away when I get more time.
     
  18. fredthe

    fredthe Active Member

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    Remember, the inverse square rule applies to uniform illumination, something which doesn't exist in real instruments.

    If, for some reason, the intensity of the beam of light is lower in the center, than in the immediatly surrounding areas, then the measured intensity (over the area of the sensor) will fall off faster than the inverse square law.

    It's not the LEDs, per se, but the combination of the LEDs and optics which is likely giving the effect of a fast drop off.
     
  19. porkchop

    porkchop Well-Known Member

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    The 100W LED source is definitely interesting. We'll have to see how it works in the end. fredthe makes a very good point that the R&D put into the placement and reflection of the light emitted from the source could drastically change the performance of this fixture hopefully there's enough money and desire in this company that they've released a polished product that will catch on and not a half a***d attempt to get the product out first. (Potential software jokes left out)
     

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